Soccer 2017-2018

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Threelions

Victory Through Harmony
<Gold Donor>
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On what planet was the PSG the favorite of the Champions' League?

I think the consensus was that PSG was one of the top favorites due to their absolutely deadly attack and deep roster. I know it doesn't mean anything in the CL, but they were smashing everyone in the French league.
 

Szlia

Member
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A big pile of Qatari money can win you the french league, it can also book you a ticket to the Champions' League knockout phase (which PSG did every time since their budget exploded), but it cannot buy you the belief that you can win against two or three of the biggest clubs in Europe in a row to lift the trophy, nor can it instill fear in those clubs. For that you need results. Beating Valencia and Leverkusen is not it. Beating Chelsea twice is more like it, but losing to the Barca even after winning home 4-0 is certainly not it. If they manage to get past the quarter finals two or three times with good wins over great teams, then we could start to talk about the PSG being a potential winner. For now, the notion is almost laughable.
 

Ossoi

Tranny Chaser
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A big pile of Qatari money can win you the french league, it can also book you a ticket to the Champions' League knockout phase (which PSG did every time since their budget exploded), but it cannot buy you the belief that you can win against two or three of the biggest clubs in Europe in a row to lift the trophy, nor can it instill fear in those clubs. For that you need results. Beating Valencia and Leverkusen is not it. Beating Chelsea twice is more like it, but losing to the Barca even after winning home 4-0 is certainly not it. If they manage to get past the quarter finals two or three times with good wins over great teams, then we could start to talk about the PSG being a potential winner. For now, the notion is almost laughable.

Man City have gone out to Barcelona twice, Real Madrid and Monaco. They are still amongst the favourites, as were PSG.
 

Merrith

Golden Baronet of the Realm
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Man City have gone out to Barcelona twice, Real Madrid and Monaco. They are still amongst the favourites, as were PSG.

This. PSG was 1-1 away to Real, two time defending champs and winners 3 of the last 4 years...up until the final 10 minutes. Lets not pretend it's "just another knockout stage" exit if they happen to lose to Madrid who can seemingly turn it on at will in the CL despite any problems they're having in other competitions.
 

Szlia

Member
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City is basically PSG + 3 years (the money dump came in 2008), except in a championship where there are big teams and with a coach that actually won the thing. Also they reached the semi before. So them being among the favorites is more legitimate than the PSG.

And Merrith Merrith , what you are saying is not a refutation of my point, it is a supporting argument: A good PSG at 1-1 against a meh Real and instead of confidently going for the win, they make two negative substitutions and shake in their boots when the Real makes two positive ones that wins them the game.
 

Ossoi

Tranny Chaser
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City is basically PSG + 3 years (the money dump came in 2008), except in a championship where there are big teams and with a coach that actually won the thing. Also they reached the semi before. So them being among the favorites is more legitimate than the PSG.

And Merrith Merrith , what you are saying is not a refutation of my point, it is a supporting argument: A good PSG at 1-1 against a meh Real and instead of confidently going for the win, they make two negative substitutions and shake in their boots when the Real makes two positive ones that wins them the game.


I agree that City are a higher favourite than PSG. Doesn't mean PSG aren't amongst the teams with a serious shot at winning it. Real Madrid definitely wouldn't have wanted to draw PSG this early, no team would. You said the idea they could win it was "laughable", that's absurd.

We know their league is a joke, they know their league is a joke. They made FFP look like a joke with the Mbappe loan deal on top of Neymar. Their primary aim is to win the CL so they can join the top tier of clubs, hence why they raided Barca for Neymar which was apparently revenge for Barca plotting a Veratti swoop.

Before the results this week I would have put Real, Barcelona, City, PSG and Bayern as favourites. Some of that is due to "CL pedigree" and some is based on current form.
 

Merrith

Golden Baronet of the Realm
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City is basically PSG + 3 years (the money dump came in 2008), except in a championship where there are big teams and with a coach that actually won the thing. Also they reached the semi before. So them being among the favorites is more legitimate than the PSG.

And Merrith Merrith , what you are saying is not a refutation of my point, it is a supporting argument: A good PSG at 1-1 against a meh Real and instead of confidently going for the win, they make two negative substitutions and shake in their boots when the Real makes two positive ones that wins them the game.

It just as easily could have worked against Real, and looking to preserve a 1-1 draw away in the 1st leg isn't the worst thing to do. I didn't feel Real was a "meh" in the game, although they had their troubles containing Neymar on breaks, for sure. Ronaldo probably should have scored at least another goal in the 1st half, but overall possession was about even, with Real having more attempts. I'll state that both Bale and Asensio should have been on much earlier, though.
 

Ossoi

Tranny Chaser
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Liverpool step up Alisson pursuit - sources

According to this LFC have a 70m pound agreement with this goalkeeper guy.

Is he worth it? He's basically got to be a true world class game changer to be worth that as i imagine that smashes the keeper record by a huge margin.

it literally just came out a few days ago via journalists with better LFC links that we dropped our interest.

He plays for Brazil ahead of Ederson, so make of that what you will

Also worth noting any fee for Alisson will have a "Salah tax" - Roma sold us Salah to meet FPP and before the Neymar deal inflated the transfer market.
 
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Asshat Brando

Potato del Grande
<Banned>
5,346
-478
The recent and somewhat recent history of the CL shows that teams that most think don't have a chance do sometimes win. Chelsea, Inter, LFC, Porto, I could go on and on about teams that weren't the best but have won recent CL's. To just write off PSG, ManC or any team in the knockout stage is pretty shortsighted. It doesn't take years of steady advancement, just things randomly to go in that teams favor.

As far as Allison, it sounds like we agreed terms with the player but Monchi/Roma are all bent out of shape about Salah's price and wants LFC to pay some crazy premium for Allison now. I don't think Karius is at the level we need but then again blowing the whole budget on a GK when we probably need another mid or two seems kind of crazy.
 

Asshat Brando

Potato del Grande
<Banned>
5,346
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Haven't watched much of Barca this year, especially now with the Coutinho transfer. Was surprised at how toothless they were, either Messi was creating or they seemingly had nothing and needed a Chelsea gift to tie it or I don't think they would have ever scored. Maybe at home they'll be a different team but they really need Dembele to be healthy and contributing if they're going to do anything.
 

Asshat Brando

Potato del Grande
<Banned>
5,346
-478
Dembele probably wasn't worth it at the time of the transfer but his numbers were in line with Neymar's at the same age, he plays the same position as Neymar and Barca had all the Neymar money in their pocket and everybody knew it. Now maybe since he's getting paid he won't push on but the transfer makes sense in that he has a chance to be just as good. Where it all falls apart for Barca is then spending even more for Coutinho who basically plays the same position as Dembele and doesn't address their midfield issues at all with Iniesta and Busquets on their last legs while playing Paulinho who can't pass. Watching Willian and Hazard just race by Busquets so easily yesterday is kind of sad for how good he's been for so long.

For the game today, ManU doesn't deserve DDG. They're shit, they play shit football and if it wasn't for him they'd be in the fucking wilderness. It's one thing to be a great GK on an amazing team, he's an amazing GK on a shit team which is amazing when you look at the money their squad cost. LFC tied there as well but we actually tried to attack and built up a 3-0 lead just for Moreno to self-destruct in the 2nd half again like he did in the Europa final. You can't say ManU had any intention in actually attacking. Then the English commentators on BT are slathering like it was a good game, dear god....
 

Merrith

Golden Baronet of the Realm
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Would have preferred a scoring draw somehow. Pretty poor performance today.
 

Ossoi

Tranny Chaser
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7,665
Where it all falls apart for Barca is then spending even more for Coutinho who basically plays the same position as Dembele and doesn't address their midfield issues at all with Iniesta

Oh, never watched any Liverpool games this season then?
 

Asshat Brando

Potato del Grande
<Banned>
5,346
-478
In games where Coutinho played with Mane, Salah and Firmino his average position was on the left as we played a lopsided 4-4-2 to fit him in. He may have been listed in the mid 3 but he didn't actually play there. Then when any of the other 3 were rested he played on the left wing in a 4-3-3. So yeah, he's not a mid even though he's had some games there in the past.
 

Ossoi

Tranny Chaser
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In games where Coutinho played with Mane, Salah and Firmino his average position was on the left as we played a lopsided 4-4-2 to fit him in. He may have been listed in the mid 3 but he didn't actually play there. Then when any of the other 3 were rested he played on the left wing in a 4-3-3. So yeah, he's not a mid even though he's had some games there in the past.

Well that's just wrong

Up until the final games of last season he was a "false lw", positioned there in the formation but with license to come inside and play as a 10, hence him shooting on his right or setting up other's

In the last games of last season Klopp moved him to midfield as the most attacking player of the middle 3. Plan this season was for him behind the front 3, and that's where he played most

Klopp used a 4222 in a few games, notably West Ham away, but this is the exception not the rule

He certainly has never been a typical touchline hugging winger, that type of player isn't in fashion, as evidenced by Mane playing on the left and "no right foot" Salah playing on the right

Here's his heat map for when he played in the front 3 vs Maribor - the only time he reached the byline was to take corners lol, he doesn't even go near that corner of the pitch lol. Whereas a typical left footed left winger will be beating his man, going to the byline or into the box, whipping in crosses etc

Coutinho by comparison is coming inside and dictating play from the centre just as much as he is on the left side of the pitch
Liverpool-Heat-Map.jpg


Here's the heatmap from the 1-1 draw vs Burnley when he played in midfield - Again clearly more central

Screen_Shot_2017-09-16_at_165823.jpg


and finally his total PL heat map after 14 games

DS4XYrrVoAAPC2g.jpg
 
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Jozu

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
6,956
6,265
So yeah Salah is basically the best player in the Prem right now.

I called him being a special player back in the Fall of last year, as he was very good in Italy, and with his Prem experience and Klopps playing style I had a good feeling about him. But Jesus the guy is truly turning into a world class player before our eyes.

People thought maybe he was just on a hot streak but his form is here to stay.
 

Asshat Brando

Potato del Grande
<Banned>
5,346
-478
Well that's just wrong

Up until the final games of last season he was a "false lw", positioned there in the formation but with license to come inside and play as a 10, hence him shooting on his right or setting up other's

In the last games of last season Klopp moved him to midfield as the most attacking player of the middle 3. Plan this season was for him behind the front 3, and that's where he played most

Klopp used a 4222 in a few games, notably West Ham away, but this is the exception not the rule

He certainly has never been a typical touchline hugging winger, that type of player isn't in fashion, as evidenced by Mane playing on the left and "no right foot" Salah playing on the right

Here's his heat map for when he played in the front 3 vs Maribor - the only time he reached the byline was to take corners lol, he doesn't even go near that corner of the pitch lol. Whereas a typical left footed left winger will be beating his man, going to the byline or into the box, whipping in crosses etc

Coutinho by comparison is coming inside and dictating play from the centre just as much as he is on the left side of the pitch
Liverpool-Heat-Map.jpg


Here's the heatmap from the 1-1 draw vs Burnley when he played in midfield - Again clearly more central

Screen_Shot_2017-09-16_at_165823.jpg


and finally his total PL heat map after 14 games

DS4XYrrVoAAPC2g.jpg

I like the post but I don't see how you're disputing my contention that Coutinho is not a midfielder. In fact you seem to be just solidifying the argument I'm making. Each heat map has him mainly past the halfway line shaded to the left with his most touches on the right being from corners. That's what a midfielder does? Notice where he played for Barca today?

Good win for LFC. Really looking forward to the trip to OT in a couple of weeks.
 

Ossoi

Tranny Chaser
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I like the post but I don't see how you're disputing my contention that Coutinho is not a midfielder. In fact you seem to be just solidifying the argument I'm making. Each heat map has him mainly past the halfway line shaded to the left with his most touches on the right being from corners. That's what a midfielder does? Notice where he played for Barca today?

Good win for LFC. Really looking forward to the trip to OT in a couple of weeks.


I couldnt care less where he played for Barcelona, it's irrelevant to this discussion

I'll let Coutinho himself explain as his midfield position in Klopps 433 gave him similar responsibility as Rodgers 442 diamond with Suarez, Sterling and Sturridge as the attacking 3

Coutinho tells Brazilian radio station that Brendan Rodgers is moulding him into midfield general | 101 Great Goals

"“I owe thanks to Brendaõ (Brendan Rodgers) for that. After Wigan away, where I didn’t stop fighting – Brendan called me to office and told me he’s sure I can be a ‘volanté’ or a no. 8.”

How Guardiola is revolutionising English football

And funnily enough just seen this article about Silva and De Bruyne - two #10s being used as #8s in the City midfield. Their roles as central playmakers is similar to Coutinho at Liverpool

The difference is Klopp gives his players freedom to move about the pitch, which is why Liverpool last season were described as a carousel, a fluid front 3 of Coutinho, Mane and Firmino with Lallana in #8 role joining in. Firmino as the false 9 frees space for the others to move into
 
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