Soccer 2017-2018

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Pyratec

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Jozu said:
Madrid is better. They are better than everyone.

I mean Ronaldo is a cocky fuck, but he is right. Look at their squad.

They have Navas in goal, who is a top 4 GK in the world, can play incredible for multiple stretches of games, and has better dive saving ability than anyone. Only Nuer, DeGea and MAYBE Courtious are better. Courtious has slipped a bit, and Buffon is a relic. Its not crazy to say Navas could be the best keeper on the planet next year if DeGea slows down and Nuer cant get healthy.

Then you look at their defense, Marcelo is a prodigy, an amazing marking defender, can run for days, and can get up field to facilitate or score if needed. Then they have Verane, one of the best defenders in the world, Carvajal, who is also a fantastic ball stopper, and Sergio Ramos, the best big game defensive footballer in history, who can also decide games by scoring.

Midfield you have Isco, Kroos and Modric, speaks for itself and is much better than Liverpools midfield, and then Benzema, Ronaldo and Bale up front. And they have Asensio, Casemiro and a really deep bench of real quality. That is easily the best side in the world.

Liverpool has the X factor in the Egyptian Pharaoh himself, so anything could happen, but Madrid is clearly the better side.

What side in the world is better? The only argument that could be made is Barca, and with Iniesta retiring, Madrid will continue to be the best team until Ronaldo finally slows down for good.
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I think you´re overrating Madrid´s defence, see this quote from a BBC article today:

That porous display was far from a one-off. Real have kept only three clean sheets in 12 Champions League matches and have conceded 15 goals, following on from a total of 17 in 2016-17. No other team since 2004-05 has let in more than 13 in getting to the final, with the average being 8.3.
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However, I do agree that Madrid has more quality in their side overall. I really feel that anything could happen in this final though, both teams have players that can just take over a game if they´re playing at their best, can´t wait for Saturday.
 
Jozu

Jozu

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Madrids defense is better than Liverpool's.

C'mon.

I mean they both have their problems and dont usually keep clean sheets, but Madrid is the best 11 in the world, anyone who says different is just biased. Your talking about an all time great squad who won 3 Champions League titles in 4 years, and could add a 4th in 5 on the 29th. Anyone who denies them as NOT being the best side, like I said, is just a hater.
 
faille

faille

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They scored 1 pt less than Madrid while losing less and conceeding far less goals. That's right, Liverpool conceeded LESS goals. But Madrid's got the world's best defence!!
All in a league far tougher than then two team La Liga comp. Lol at Madrid coming third in a two team league.

I think you need to wipe your chin because you're dribbling shit at this point.
 
Jozu

Jozu

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I never said Madrid has the best defense in the world?

I think overall they are better than Liverpools, you can cite stats all day but when it comes to quality Madrid is just more talented. Maybe their tactics or coaching is inferior, but they have better players.

And so fucking what about La Liga? Who the fuck is talking about Spanish football? Were talking Champions League here, thats what Madrid cares about, and its not a fucking coincidence they are in the final AGAIN.

Barca meanwhile flamed out to fucking Roma.

Just so you understand...

Madrid = Best team in the world.

Madrid = Better defense than Liverpool.

Madrid = Not best DEFENSE in the world.

edit: Im not even a RM fan. I actually want Liverpool to win. Salah is the best player in this game, yes better than my man crush Ronaldo. (right now)
 
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Pyratec

Golden Knight of the Realm
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Jozu said:
I never said Madrid has the best defense in the world?

I think overall they are better than Liverpools, you can cite stats all day but when it comes to quality Madrid is just more talented. Maybe their tactics or coaching is inferior, but they have better players.

And so fucking what about La Liga? Who the fuck is talking about Spanish football? Were talking Champions League here, thats what Madrid cares about, and its not a fucking coincidence they are in the final AGAIN.

Barca meanwhile flamed out to fucking Roma.

Just so you understand...

Madrid = Best team in the world.

Madrid = Better defense than Liverpool.

Madrid = Not best DEFENSE in the world.

edit: Im not even a RM fan. I actually want Liverpool to win. Salah is the best player in this game, yes better than my man crush Ronaldo. (right now)
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Also from the same BBC article that I quoted earlier is this paragraph:

Liverpool have their own flaws, of course. They have conceded 13 times themselves in the Champions League proper, including six times against Roma in their semi-final tie. But Jurgen Klopp's side have kept six clean sheets in the competition this season, a tally matched only by Barcelona. And they did only concede 38 times in the Premier League, six fewer than Real's tally in La Liga.
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So Liverpool are tied for the most clean sheets in the Champions League this year, and they conceded fewer than Real did in their respective leagues this year. I´m not saying Liverpool are a stellar defensive team, but the argument could be made Liverpool are at least Real´s equal defensively if not slightly better. Real may have the more talented and promising players, but that doesnt always translate to results on field.
 
Merrith

Merrith

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To be fair...despite Liverpool playing Man City, Madrid has had a much tougher overall road in the Champs League than Liverpool did. Tottenham and Dortmund in their group, PSG, Juventus, and Bayern in the knockout stage? I agree Madrid's defense can be just as shaky as Liverpool's, but their goals allowed should also be noted within the context of who they have played.
 
Brando

Asshat Brando

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Jozu said:
Madrid is better. They are better than everyone.

I mean Ronaldo is a cocky fuck, but he is right. Look at their squad.

They have Navas in goal, who is a top 4 GK in the world, can play incredible for multiple stretches of games, and has better dive saving ability than anyone. Only Nuer, DeGea and MAYBE Courtious are better. Courtious has slipped a bit, and Buffon is a relic. Its not crazy to say Navas could be the best keeper on the planet next year if DeGea slows down and Nuer cant get healthy.

Then you look at their defense, Marcelo is a prodigy, an amazing marking defender, can run for days, and can get up field to facilitate or score if needed. Then they have Verane, one of the best defenders in the world, Carvajal, who is also a fantastic ball stopper, and Sergio Ramos, the best big game defensive footballer in history, who can also decide games by scoring.

Midfield you have Isco, Kroos and Modric, speaks for itself and is much better than Liverpools midfield, and then Benzema, Ronaldo and Bale up front. And they have Asensio, Casemiro and a really deep bench of real quality. That is easily the best side in the world.

Liverpool has the X factor in the Egyptian Pharaoh himself, so anything could happen, but Madrid is clearly the better side.

What side in the world is better? The only argument that could be made is Barca, and with Iniesta retiring, Madrid will continue to be the best team until Ronaldo finally slows down for good.
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You claim to be a Madrid (or is it just Ronaldo) fan and I suppose fan being short for fanatic always means you're going to give your own team the benefit of the doubt. With that said this is pretty hilarious, even for a fanboy, in that it's something more akin to what you would read on Madrid's version of Redcafe or RAWK. I guess we'll see after the game but if you were a neutral and watched their league and CL performances I don't even see how you could type this with half a straight face.
 
Brando

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Jozu said:
I never said Madrid has the best defense in the world?

I think overall they are better than Liverpools, you can cite stats all day but when it comes to quality Madrid is just more talented. Maybe their tactics or coaching is inferior, but they have better players.
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LOL, yeah let's just ignore facts. Par for the course these days I guess.
 
Brando

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Merrith said:
To be fair...despite Liverpool playing Man City, Madrid has had a much tougher overall road in the Champs League than Liverpool did. Tottenham and Dortmund in their group, PSG, Juventus, and Bayern in the knockout stage? I agree Madrid's defense can be just as shaky as Liverpool's, but their goals allowed should also be noted within the context of who they have played.
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And yet they had the same defensive issues in La Liga and other CL games. There's a reason the bookies odds are only slight favorites to RM for this game, it's not some all conquering behemoth but a team of 30 somethings almost on their last legs trying to win one more time before father time catches up to them. I am biased but if you just look at how the teams play and their respective stats there isn't much between them with one of them young and improving. I can certainly see, and actually expect, at some point in this game Liverpool is going to hit them like the whirlwind and it's just whether we can score enough goals during that time whether we'll win or not.

Edit: And if we didn't beat ManC and they advanced here instead of us I think they would have wiped the floor with RM and it wouldn't have been close.
 
Merrith

Merrith

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Brando said:
And yet they had the same defensive issues in La Liga and other CL games. There's a reason the bookies odds are only slight favorites to RM for this game, it's not some all conquering behemoth but a team of 30 somethings almost on their last legs trying to win one more time before father time catches up to them. I am biased but if you just look at how the teams play and their respective stats there isn't much between them with one of them young and improving. I can certainly see, and actually expect, at some point in this game Liverpool is going to hit them like the whirlwind and it's just whether we can score enough goals during that time whether we'll win or not.

Edit: And if we didn't beat ManC and they advanced here instead of us I think they would have wiped the floor with RM and it wouldn't have been close.
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Well we won't get to see Man C v. Madrid, easy to speculate though.

Btw, I also noted that I agreed Madrid's defense was shaky, just pointed out that using their goals against total in Champs League could use some context given the crazy draw they've had to deal with. I mean aside from playing Man C or Barca, they've pretty much had to take on every other big hitter.
 
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Pyratec

Golden Knight of the Realm
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Merrith said:
Well we won't get to see Man C v. Madrid, easy to speculate though.

Btw, I also noted that I agreed Madrid's defense was shaky, just pointed out that using their goals against total in Champs League could use some context given the crazy draw they've had to deal with. I mean aside from playing Man C or Barca, they've pretty much had to take on every other big hitter.
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And I would counter that the Premier League has better quality top to bottom and Real conceded more in La Liga. Either way, I'm pretty sure we won't have a 0-0 here.
 
Merrith

Merrith

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Pyratec said:
And I would counter that the Premier League has better quality top to bottom and Real conceded more in La Liga. Either way, I'm pretty sure we won't have a 0-0 here.
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Oh hell no on the 0-0. I'm not sure what the over/under is, but I'd take the over every time. Imagine if Ramos manages to get a red, as well. Seriously think 6-5 final is in play.
 
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Pyratec

Golden Knight of the Realm
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Merrith said:
Oh hell no on the 0-0. I'm not sure what the over/under is, but I'd take the over every time. Imagine if Ramos manages to get a red, as well. Seriously think 6-5 final is in play.
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I don't know about 6-5, this isn't like the semi-finals where the teams know they'll have a second chance to correct things if they lose the first game. And based on previous observation of Real in CL games and how referees treat them, I'd be pretty surprised if Real gets a red at any point ;)
 
Merrith

Merrith

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Pyratec said:
I don't know about 6-5, this isn't like the semi-finals where the teams know they'll have a second chance to correct things if they lose the first game. And based on previous observation of Real in CL games and how referees treat them, I'd be pretty surprised if Real gets a red at any point ;)
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Real has plenty of calls go against them too, although notably mainly against Barca in past years. Most of the whining about officiating in their favor comes from Bayern fans, who don't want to admit that at least half of their complaints (if not more) were pure fantasy on their part. It's easy to hate the team on top, but maybe Liverpool can take the crown.

6-5 might be a little crazy I'll admit. 4-3 wouldn't shock me in the slightest though.
 
Brando

Asshat Brando

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Merrith said:
Well we won't get to see Man C v. Madrid, easy to speculate though.

Btw, I also noted that I agreed Madrid's defense was shaky, just pointed out that using their goals against total in Champs League could use some context given the crazy draw they've had to deal with. I mean aside from playing Man C or Barca, they've pretty much had to take on every other big hitter.
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Yet league stats tend to hold true for CL games as well. Top end teams don't suddenly play differently for CL games. RM's defense was bad in La Liga, it was bad in the CL regardless of who they were playing. I've said over and over again in this thread though that when it comes to the CL, Euros, WC, or any type of knockout tournament you need things to break your way at the very high end to actually win the whole thing the margins are so small as there are very few games played in relation to an actual league campaign.

You have to keep in mind how Real play, they don't press at all and while Modric has some defensive action Kroos has basically none. Either Varane/Ramos stuffs out all the chances or you just waltz right through them. Just watch that Juve game at the Bernabau over again if you don't believe me and yet Juve has nothing on LFC in regards to transition speed.
 
Brando

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Merrith said:
Real has plenty of calls go against them too, although notably mainly against Barca in past years. Most of the whining about officiating in their favor comes from Bayern fans, who don't want to admit that at least half of their complaints (if not more) were pure fantasy on their part. It's easy to hate the team on top, but maybe Liverpool can take the crown.

6-5 might be a little crazy I'll admit. 4-3 wouldn't shock me in the slightest though.
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I'm not a Bayern fan but that's a bit rich. Vidal sent off for a clear tackle while Casemiro was going in two footed on almost every challenge plus 2 of Ronaldo's goals were about as clearly off-side as they come, one of them he was 5 feet off-side when the ball was passed to him. Bayern only have themselves to blame for not winning this year but last year they did get fucking jobbed over and over.
 
Merrith

Merrith

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Brando said:
I'm not a Bayern fan but that's a bit rich. Vidal sent off for a ticky tack second yellow while Casemiro was going in two footed on almost every challenge plus 2 of Ronaldo's goals were about as clearly off-side as they come, one of them he was 5 feet off-side when the ball was passed to him. Bayern only have themselves to blame for not winning this year but last year they did get fucking jobbed over and over.
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I'd disagree 2 of the goals were clearly offside. 1 likely, but many forget the one on the pass from Marcelo they weren't getting a camera angle showing straight down the proper line. If that goal was offside it was absolutely razor thin.

Vidal should have been sent off before that ticky tack second yellow (which I agree the 2nd one he did get was weak, but it was justice given he had escaped earlier).

I agree completely they only have themselves to blame this year. So many chances they just dumped.

Btw again, still agree Madrid's defense is weak. Just noting they played a virtual murderer's row and have still made it to the final again for a potential 3rd straight title and 4th in 5 years. However it's happened, it's impressive.
 
Brando

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The one with Marcelo he had to be behind the ball, not the player, as there was no other defender. There's no way he ever was, you can call it tight and see why it wasn't called but it was still off-side on repeated viewing.

Edit: You can't say Vidal's sending off was deserved yet Casemiro should have stayed on the field. They were both doing the same thing. I don't think Casemiro even got a card without looking at the stats and yet he was blatantly breaking up counters without any intention of playing the ball from what I can recall.
 
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