Star Citizen Online - The search for more money

Vitality

HUSTLE
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30
I'm not seeing that. If that was the case why are they re-doing the early ships like the Avenger, Cutlass and Constellation? They are going through the 3rd major revision now just like the Hornet did. If they care so little why would they spend an ungodly amount of time and effort to re-tool all those ships? Chris was asked for 2 years to implement a modular ship system to let players adjust the inside of ships. He is laying the groundwork for that now but that means re-doing many early ships and those are some of the cheapest ones you can own.

The newer ships will simply be released at the same quality level as the 3rd revision of the early ones. The M50 is a good example of that. It was the first ship to be at that level of quality and it's pushed everything else up since. Lots of people don't think they should be doing any of that as it wastes resources. I think it's great.
ESO rehashed the starter content of it's game 3 times at the extreme sacrifice of the rest of it's development. To it's demise.

I'll butt out of this conversation mostly though because I do not intend on supporting this developer after reading this thread in it's entirety.
 

Abefroman

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
12,597
11,941
ESO rehashed the starter content of it's game 3 times at the extreme sacrifice of the rest of it's development. To it's demise.

I'll butt out of this conversation mostly though because I do not intend on supporting this developer after reading this thread in it's entirety.
Did you really just compare rehashing a starter zone to redoing ships?
 

Variise

N00b
497
17
Good enough for me, I enjoy immersive games moreso then the more gamey ones. Still I question commiting many resources to a system that ends up being a free character re-modeling. I'll just go on creating Knuckles II, III, IV etc after a final death.
Sometimes it may be preferred if you fuck up badly or want a career change and don't want to run multiple characters. The downside of death besides the insurance on ship, installed mods, cargo and loss of personal gear that is uninsurable is reputation. It will not reset but it will be a significant hit requiring you to spend a considerable amount of time and effort to rebuild your past position. If you are a pirate you will be somewhat more tolerated vs a noob but you may still be kill of sight or at best all but the worst shitty missions may be locked away from you and you end up having to crawl back up the sewer pipe all over again.

So that rep hit will matter to the majority of players and they will not want to die because it will nodoubt hit their profit margins massively until that rep can be repaired.

Hope that answers that.
 

Variise

N00b
497
17
Yeah that was apples vs. oranges: trying to fix an unpleasant gaming experience vs. reworking models for higher fidelity and functionality.
If the gaming experience is FUBAR your game is fucked doesn't matter how pretty the models are. So far all we have for SC is AC which is always only ever going to be a snippet of the PU. I would be more inclined to judge first hand experience with the game once the first PU planets are fully fleshed out. That will not happen until next year. This year is the foundation and building blocks. Next year is fleshing out and using the existing building blocks to very quickly build out 100+ planets. Personally I think there is no fucking way they can do that in one year but /shrug I'm not in any hurry.
 

Mist

REEEEeyore
<Rickshaw Potatoes>
31,802
24,488
Does it really even need that many planets? I'd rather have 15 interesting planets than a 100 random locales.
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
49,556
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I'm kind of disappointed that neither SC or ED went the path of 'millions of randomly generated planets you can claim ownership of and develop content for.'.
 

Running Dog_sl

shitlord
1,199
3
I'm kind of disappointed that neither SC or ED went the path of 'millions of randomly generated planets you can claim ownership of and develop content for.'.
Frontier still have the training wheels on for player-created content. As it stands you can contribute to the creation of new capital ships, and new space stations. Whoever contributes most gets naming rights, IIRC. Depending on what explorers have discovered, some high-level Kickstarter backers get to vote on where new stations will go. There've been hints of player-owned mining camps and factories down the line as well.

All in all it's quite limited, but whether that's because they are still sorting out how to do it or whether they want to do it at all, I don't know. I get the impression that some developers want to keep tight control over how human space evolves as the game progresses, while others would be happy to just see where things go. I doubt player ownership of systems and planets will ever happen, especially as you can just switch to Solo play and dodge any blockades or patrols, not that that's stopped players trying.
 

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
2,395
289
I'm kind of disappointed that neither SC or ED went the path of 'millions of randomly generated planets you can claim ownership of and develop content for.'.
Stay tuned for the $100mill milestone sometime later this year. They'll either do that or Roberts buys another private island.
 

Variise

N00b
497
17
Does it really even need that many planets? I'd rather have 15 interesting planets than a 100 random locales.
There is an interview where they discussed this with the producers. It's a huge challenge trying to come up with compelling locales. If you look at real life for an example a locale is made special by its surroundings. Sometimes you see a picture and you know instantly where that is in the world if it's a wide enough shot even if there are no obvious major landmarks. That's what they are doing. Supposedly they have done that with some 50+ planets now including coming up with unique landmarks so people instantly know which planet is which just based on that one major landmark. In some cases it's a huge crater in the center of the city, another is a massive sign and yet another it's the tallest building in the known galaxy. The rest they haven't talked about because mostly it exists on paper. They are only actively working on 5 planets right now and only two are mostly built up.

Also at the start there is only going to be three major types of architecture. However by next year there should be sub groups within those major ones and we should see 6-12 different ones. Don't expect 12 types used by the time the game launches. If we are lucky we will get 6 (3 major, 1 sub type each). The more they have the more variety we will get.

Tuco mentioned that he is disappointed with the lack of more procedural generation. In fact by the time the assets are complete they hope to have the tools also built to pre-make entire star systems and cities at the click of a button. Once that's done the artists go in and spend time actually adjusting things to suit the need of the locale. That's how procedural generation will be used in SC. That's the only way they can build 100-150 planets and some 300 landing locations across them and in space. Yup it's not one city per planet. Some larger planets may have 3 or even 4 landing locations such as Terra III or a major industrial world. Others may have none or just one. You should be able to land at virtually all of them except maybe gas giants unless there is a space station in orbit and that has actually been discussed as a likely refinery location to land and refuel/trade from.

Also they will need procedural generation for the asteroids. Since they are building a 1/10 scale or whatever crazy sized scale star system everywhere they need a shit ton of asteroids. Those will not be done by hand. The assets are built by hand and a tool will be used to randomly generate asteroids of various sizes and compositions and seed an asteroid belt with them. Procedural generation will also be used to find new locations like that in space but everything will be touched by hand first so what you see was generated through procedural generation but only inside a dev tool. Then someone reviews it and adds it to the asset database the game uses to reveal a new location for players to travel to and explore. A similar tool will be used to create missions but those will be much more hands on.

Why?

Because they don't think it would be fun and I agree. People would get lost and bored way too quick and you have no control over what happens. Depending on the tool it could be pretty shit so I think it's a good idea to put eyes on it before its released to the player base and have some control over the content to ensure it's going to be fun. The other side of that is you need a shit ton of assets to make that work. Which is why I still don't think they can pull this off by 2017. I don't care how good their tool devs are, and they are pretty fucking good from the interviews I watched, since the amount of assets that need review is just astronomical. ED didn't need that because they built a tool and released it into their game. Done. SC needs more hands on time and that's more dev time and effort to ensure there is real quality there.

One last thing. Too many people want EVE's level of completeness at release date. Fuck... that. I don't care what dev is involved nobody can live up to that expectation no matter how much money you throw into the fire. Some things just need to sit and stew for years to get good and no amount of money or effort can replace that.
 

Mist

REEEEeyore
<Rickshaw Potatoes>
31,802
24,488
My ideal space game would be like 5 solar systems and a whole lot going on in each one at every station, planet and moon and asteroid region. You could do the deep space exploration stuff too like E: D does, but that would be like a mini game, not the core of the game.
 

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
2,395
289
At official release I would expect a dozen fleshed out systems (i.e. zones). If it's any less each system would have to feature alot of explorables to stay interesting. They can add more post-release in content patches, DLC or expansions, since adding space systems is alot easier then adding new areas to existing overland maps.
 

Mahes

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
5,858
7,383
That was one of the best parts of the original Wing Commander. Actually seeing pieces fly off as you hit the mark. It of course was not up to that detail level but it was still awesome.
 

Blackwulf

N00b
999
18
Fan recording of PAX East presentation. I think a better quality official recording is going up on Monday or Tuesday.

Best of Star Citizen PTU 1.1.0 Release Party at PAX East 2015 - YouTube

In this presentation CR says that the FPS test module is coming this month, the social module (walk outside your hanger and interact with other people planetside) is coming next month, multi crew ship battle module is coming in summer time, Episode 1 of Squadron 42 (20 hours of gameplay, 70 missions) is coming before the end of the year, and persistent universe pre-alpha ("limited number of systems, take off, fly, land, trade, interact..") is coming at the end of the year, also.

rrr_img_92325.jpg


I'm smoking big bales of hopium right now, but I'm not a jaded OG backer from 2012, so it doesn't mean too much to say that. Everything is happening pretty fast at this point. If this is all smoke and mirrors and he's just buying islands and shit, then he's got some big balls of steel, laying out dates like that.