Star Trek: Picard

Jorren

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I'm making fun of people on this forum who insist its not real. There isn't a week really that goes by without someone making that claim, and then trying to shame people out of talking about it. So no; clearly there are those among you who do not know that. Also, no, when you get conservatives making entertainment you get things like Flags of our Fathers, American Sniper, Braveheart, Hacksaw Ridge, Million Dollar Baby, Mystic River, A man for all Seasons, . Openess, and creativity, as a trait is only biased toward Liberals; its not an exclusively Liberal--that is absurd. Hollywood used to be ground zero for conservative media that could be considered raw propaganda; for fuck sake there was a time when someone like John Wayne and Charlton Heston were the foundations of Hollywood. (The idea of degenerates in entertainment comes from a lot of factors there don't really coincide with "the left"--the biggest was that entertainers often had to travel).

That said the post was not some advocacy for conservative entertainment, or even commentary on Left/SJW idiocy. It was simply making fun of people that STILL refuse to call this shit out, or at least refuse to let others discuss it without interjecting their 2+2=5 bullshit. A huge part of the problem is this belief that this stuff can't be discussed, or its poor form to discuss it. Its an absurdity that continues to be pushed on this forum even, constantly (And this forum is about as biased against that as you'll find); everywhere else its almost taboo to bring up the fact that ideology is ruining entertainment.

And that is precisely PART of the reason its ruining entertainment. Because audiences have been shamed into not telling these people they are fucking stupid, for fear it might make them seem like they hate women, or are racist or any number of stupid reasons that are clearly just cover for a bunch of religious nuts who don't want their dogma criticized anymore. Its the lack of criticism and discussion which has emboldened their hysteria as their ideological views fail to pan out despite their clear social dominance now; because they need to create devils and preach against them in order to explain why their ideology is failing despite said social dominance (IE we can't find any overt sexism/racism to explain the lack of progress, thus it now must be UNCONSCIOUS bias that conveniently no one needs evidence to prove!)...That hysteria/fervor why their injection of ideology into entertainment has jumped from subtle, symbolic insights into human behavior and potential improvement (Which were good), into overt preaching and dogma (Which is dog shit). And this is working for them; because no one is around, outside of now a few comedians, who will call them stupid for it. The kind of hysterical, delusional displays of ideology that we are seeing can only really work as long as no one is around to point out the Emperor's dick is showing; these kinds of things really are perpetuated by lack of communication (Which is the whole reason for those fables or books like 1984). It's that reason that I find the idea of people who stop discussion into obviously apparent things to be, well, the worst.

And some of us are making fun of people that rabidly call out SJW shit in every thread. We get it. It is just as annoying as SJWs calling shit out all over twitter. It is like people here have to virtue signal "Hey bros, SJWs amiright?". It's the snap judgments that something is going to be SJW trash before it is even viewable that drags a discussion down. People refuse to even watch it unless they get some confirmation that is safe to watch lest their anti-SJW sensibilities are compromised. SJWs do the same thing. It can be funny, but it has reached annoying status. It is akin to how comedians (many of which are liberal) have been railing against SJWs and PC culture lately.
 
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Gavinmad

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And some of us are making fun of people that rabidly call out SJW shit in every thread. We get it. It is just as annoying as SJWs calling shit out all over twitter. It is like people here have to virtue signal "Hey bros, SJWs amiright?". It's the snap judgments that something is going to be SJW trash before it is even viewable that drags a discussion down. People refuse to even watch it unless they get some confirmation that is safe to watch lest their anti-SJW sensibilities are compromised. SJWs do the same thing. It can be funny, but it has reached annoying status. It is akin to how comedians (many of which are liberal) have been railing against SJWs and PC culture lately.

Patrick Stewart isn't going to fuck you bro
 
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Arbitrary

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And some of us are making fun of people that rabidly call out SJW shit in every thread. We get it. It is just as annoying as SJWs calling shit out all over twitter. It is like people here have to virtue signal "Hey bros, SJWs amiright?". It's the snap judgments that something is going to be SJW trash before it is even viewable that drags a discussion down. People refuse to even watch it unless they get some confirmation that is safe to watch lest their anti-SJW sensibilities are compromised. SJWs do the same thing. It can be funny, but it has reached annoying status. It is akin to how comedians (many of which are liberal) have been railing against SJWs and PC culture lately.

Reading the promotional material and checking out the interviews and coming to a conclusion about the themes and style of show isn't a snap judgement.

The people inserting their political and social agenda in to all of the entertainment products being made are not the same as the people critical of that behavior. You're bored with the state of things? I'm bored with the centrist mentality that tries act above it all with their trite "can't you see both sides are the same" attitude.
 
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Jorren

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Reading the promotional material and checking out the interviews and coming to a conclusion about the themes and style of show isn't a snap judgement.

The people inserting their political and social agenda in to all of the entertainment products being made are not the same as the people critical of that behavior. You're bored with the state of things? I'm bored with the centrist mentality that tries act above it all with their trite "can't you see both sides are the same" attitude.

You are right, but yet snap judgements still happen, because not everyone is reading the material, and it shows. I am certainly not bored with it. I am stoked that Ricky Gervais railed on Hollywood. It is nice to see someone hold their own to account. Picard is going to be SJW, but ST has always been SJW no matter how rose colored your glasses are. Which makes the whole discussion (outrage) about Stewart injecting he beliefs into the show all the more funny.
 
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Malakriss

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During prime sci-fi era: will this be the best thing EVAR!?!?!?
Now: is this better than Discovery?
 

Arbitrary

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Picard is going to be SJW, but ST has always been SJW no matter how rose colored your glasses are. Which makes the whole discussion (outrage) about Stewart injecting he beliefs into the show all the more funny.

Star Trek is about a future in which humanity has bested many of its great nemeses. It's optimistic. Star Trek was one of the few shows that Dr. Martin Luthor King Jr. allowed his kids to watch. We've got a Jap on the helm and a Ruskie in charge of the weapon's system post WW2 and with the Cold War raging. Roddenberry had to place Uhuru right behind Kirk to keep the television stations in the South from being able to just edit her out. That character is like 5th in command on the Federation's flagship. Star Trek has the first interracial kiss - between Kirk and Uhura. When filming that scene the studio tried to cut it but Shatner and Nichols just went through with the kiss again and again until they ran out of film.

Get fucking fucked with this "Star Trek has always been SJW" horseshit. Star Trek has always been progressive. A future in which we've put race behind us? Great! Remember that episode of TOS where there's two groups of people at war - one with white and black faces and the other with black and white faces - and everyone thinks their dispute is beyond ridiculous? That episode would be racist by today's standards. It's dismissive to mixed-race individuals and doesn't capture the reality of blackness in the modern day etc etc etc. Instead of moving beyond race SJWs have made everything about race and gender. Star Trek's message was the literal opposite of that for more than half a century.

I'd love some "let's all hold hands and march in to the future together" science fiction where Jean Luc Picard fixes problems with words but what we're going to get is Patrick Stewart punching Space Boris Johnson for wanting Space Borders.
 
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Jorren

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False.

Major difference between what "progressive" used to be vs what it means now.

Star Trek is about a future in which humanity has bested many of its great nemeses. It's optimistic. Star Trek was one of the few shows that Dr. Martin Luthor King Jr. allowed his kids to watch. We've got a Jap on the helm and a Ruskie in charge of the weapon's system post WW2 and with the Cold War raging. Roddenberry had to place Uhuru right behind Kirk to keep the television stations in the South from being able to just edit her out. That character is like 5th in command on the Federation's flagship. Star Trek has the first interracial kiss - between Kirk and Uhura. When filming that scene the studio tried to cut it but Shatner and Nichols just went through with the kiss again and again until they ran out of film.

Get fucking fucked with this "Star Trek has always been SJW" horseshit. Star Trek has always been progressive. A future in which we've put race behind us? Great! Remember that episode of TOS where there's two groups of people at war - one with white and black faces and the other with black and white faces - and everyone thinks their dispute is beyond ridiculous? That episode would be racist by today's standards. It's dismissive to mixed-race individuals and doesn't capture the reality of blackness in the modern day etc etc etc. Instead of moving beyond race SJWs have made everything about race and gender. Star Trek's message was the literal opposite of that for more than half a century.

I'd love some "let's all hold hands and march in to the future together" science fiction where Jean Luc Picard fixes problems with words but what we're going to get is Patrick Stewart punching Space Boris Johnson for wanting Space Borders.

We are not living in back then, we are living now. So looking at it, looks pretty SJW. If any of those shows we floated today (or maybe watched by people that did not grow up with them), they would be torn apart with "Diversity Hires" "Gay Agenda" "Feminist" "SJW trash" yadda yadda. Actually, they received a lot of that back then as well. They were all affected by the politics of the day as well as Arbitrary points out.

Anyway, I am what progressive used to be, love the older Trek and will be watching the fuck out of this show just like I did with Discovery.
 
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Lithose

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And some of us are making fun of people that rabidly call out SJW shit in every thread. We get it. It is just as annoying as SJWs calling shit out all over twitter. It is like people here have to virtue signal "Hey bros, SJWs amiright?". It's the snap judgments that something is going to be SJW trash before it is even viewable that drags a discussion down. People refuse to even watch it unless they get some confirmation that is safe to watch lest their anti-SJW sensibilities are compromised. SJWs do the same thing. It can be funny, but it has reached annoying status. It is akin to how comedians (many of which are liberal) have been railing against SJWs and PC culture lately.

Except when SJWs call shit out over twitter they are actively often trying to get things cancelled. This it the major difference between these two things. SJWs are black listing people, no platforming them, 'cancelling' things. They are discussing things to actively censor them. And you know what? They actually succeed sometimes; they've certainly succeeded enough to get properties radically changed and elicit major apologies from studios. Can you show me where a studio apologized for being too PC? Because, I think the only reaction I've ever seen is to call those criticisms racist and sexist and promptly double down...So this comparison is not equivalent in terms of prevalence/influence.

Its also not equivalent in terms of context/action. Anti-SJWs are commenting on things that are clearly intentional, often with the literal creators actively saying "yes, we intended this". Meanwhile, SJWs often resort to things like "implied unconscious bias" to explain how some behavior ACTUALLY represents some hidden motivation. I mean, look at this shit man. Look at it.

ssssssssss.png



This is a national magazine seeing TRUMP in a WW1 film. Meanwhile we're just guys on a message board wondering why they are injecting Trump in to Star Trek. See the difference in how Anti-SJWs are complaining about things that are actually there or are straight up confirmed by authors as their intent, while SJWs often focus on "the implication" of things that are NOT intended or even there? These two things are not the same. That said, if The Watchmen should prove anything to everyone on this forum its that even the most jaded Anti-SJW people would ignore it if the material was JUST GOOD. Look at that thread, SJW complaints stop a few episodes in because by god, they managed to write a compelling SJW story. The problem with SJW shit is not that it is SJW shit most of the time, its the fact that when a writer cares so little about the lore/world he's writing in that he'll shit on it to get his political message out, its ALSO usually a sign they are an absolute hack too and will be a bad writer. People have just begun to associate smoke with fire, and can you blame them?
 
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Asshat wormie

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There is a huge difference between a show being progressive and a show made specifically to push progressive agenda.
 
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Lithose

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We are not living in back then, we are living now. So looking at it, looks pretty SJW. If any of those shows we floated today (or maybe watched by people that did not grow up with them), they would be torn apart with "Diversity Hires" "Gay Agenda" "Feminist" "SJW trash" yadda yadda. Actually, they received a lot of that back then as well. They were all affected by the politics of the day as well as Arbitrary points out.

Anyway, I am what progressive used to be, love the older Trek and will be watching the fuck out of this show just like I did with Discovery.


Being progressive or utopian=/=SJW. Mostly what being SJW means is that subtly and symbolism and stretched to the point of breaking and become overt preaching that shits on the story in favor of "the message". (IE story with some symbolism vs propaganda) This should be reversed.

For example: Mad Max is a super feminist, female empowerment film. Its one of my favorite films of the modern era, can't get enough of it. Has a huge social justice message, but the director did not make the message more important than the story, and it shows. People just want that level of subtly; but the issue is you have a bunch of people who are genuine zealots now looking for praise from a cult and they WANT the material to be overt...very overt, to get more praise and cover for their lack of ability. This is bad, and people need to show they don't like this behavior so it counter balances Hollywood fart sniffing.
 
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Asshat wormie

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Star Trek's message is in direct opposition to modern identity politics.
Imagine if Worf was judged by his skin color and not his character. They would have tossed his ugly black ass out of the airlock.
 
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Malakriss

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The Picard producers had to actually address the question of what happens if Worf appears on the show. Someone actually asked if they'd make him look like Discovery's Klingons.

 
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a_skeleton_05

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Imagine if Worf was judged by his skin color and not his character. They would have tossed his ugly black ass out of the airlock.

Picard and Riker would been forced to check their privilege everytime they gave him an order.
 
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Arbitrary

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there’s no sign of Michael Dorn as the Enterprise‘s Klingon security chief Worf.

He's COMMANDER Worf of House Martok and was assigned as diplomat to Kronos!

Picard and Riker would been forced to check their privilege everytime they gave him an order.

The Troi/Worf pairing in later seasons would have gone fast and hard where Worf bangs her before the entire senior staff while everyone claps. I think Netflix did this already?
 
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