Star Trek: Picard

Neelix was annoying, but his character was written that way. I think there was an episode where Tuvok has to move in with him and Tuvok goes nuts lol

grumblethorn said:

When your answer is not immediately Neelix, you invalidate your entire statement.

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Nah, Neelix was annoying, but he wasn't a simpering 'tard like Wesley that was trying to be portrayed as someone of official station. Neelix was mostly locked down in the cafeteria, which is exactly where he belonged.

Tarrant said:

The fuck?

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Right? Like I guess if you ignore the whole billion year old civilization that sent a protomolecule to highjack evolution to add to their galaxy spanning empire that were eliminated by some bigger bad.

Cybsled said:

Neelix was annoying, but his character was written that way.

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Oh, if only. This is a citation from the TV Guide back in October of 1994, before the show aired early next year -

Neelix: Played by Ethan Phillips of Benson, this alien from a species Trekkers have never seen before will serve as commentator on the human condition, just like DS9's Odo. Just like Quark, he's a meddling scavenger predicted to be Voyager's breakout character.

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THEY THOUGHT HE WAS GOING TO BE THE BREAKOUT CHARACTER! And commentator on the human condition! Like Quark! And Odo!

Wesley was bad. But neelix was offensively bad.

SO THERE.

Wesley started out heinous but got pruned out of the show with his few later appearances being whatever up until his single motion picture appearance in Nemesis where he has no lines and screen time measured in seconds. Neelix wasn't the character they thought he was going to be and when audiences expressed their displeasure the writers stuck with it anyway. Jar Jar Binks may have been a disaster but at least Lucas recognized that he was a disaster and reduced his role in the other prequels. When the big wigs at Voyager needed to punt someone to make way for Jeri Ryan they first chose Garret Wong. Harry Kim was indeed a bad character but Wong was voted one of People Magazine's Most Beautiful and got to stay. Punting Neelix, the character people hated, wasn't their first choice or even their second. They threw his capable, cute girlfriend off the show. She at least had some growth and a couple decent episodes. Neelix would go on to continue being annoying in almost every single episode he was in and never have an episode that elevated the character. Kim would at least always have Timeless. That episode is excellent.

People have pointed out that Jennifer Lien was already starting to fray around the edges and be why she got the boot but it was still Wong first so she couldn't have been too much of a nutter at the time. Even keeping Wong was hollow. They never really had much for Kim to do and his character would never really grow.

Space Legolas is far worse than Wesley. He serves no purpose, his character is inane and childish. Every scene he's in is bad.

I think this show is decent and I'm looking forward to the last 3 episodes of the season. Even if you don't like it i don't think Patrick Stewart is the cause. He has definitely hammed it up a bit but he still carries a good amount of gravitas in his scenes. I can understand having issues with the writing and story line.. it's a hell of a lot better than discovery though.

Having said all this the one or two people who like picard more than expanse are nuts.

iannis said:

Wesley was bad. But neelix was offensively bad.

SO THERE.

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Totally FF when he or she was onscreen in the latest rewatch. Damn they suck so bad.
Edit: Here’s some eye bleach to wash away the gay
The Picard I remember.

Neelix is camp bad....Wesley and Legolas are cringe bad. These aren't the same things. You can laugh at camp bad, like the writers know its probably going to be goofy and so make it a bit over the top. Neelix in that way IS essentially a failed Quark, if Quark was less charismatic, he'd be Neelix.

Wesley and Legolas though have zero camp. They are played absolutely straight. And it prevents me from snickering at how bad they are. Rather I just feel kind of embarrassed, like its a pure empathetic reaction as I'm forced to wonder how everyone around can be so stupid and blind to allow this, while clearly being so seriously trying to make it good.

Neelix is Stallone Judge Dread bad. Wesley and Legolas are Avatar the Last Airbender movie bad. You can't compare these things.

That's why they are killing all the characters people remember from TNG/Voyager. They probably know people will have 0 emotional attachment to the new crew, so they sacrifice characters you actually know for quick shock value.

Wouldn't half surprise me if 7 of 9 dies in the next episode trying to take back the Borg cube (the previews for the next episode seem to tease her potentially being overwhelmed by the queen chamber...if that happens, then presumably she makes the Borg cube go nuclear to avoid full re-assimilation).

Arbitrary said:

Wesley started out heinous but got pruned out of the show with his few later appearances being whatever up until his single motion picture appearance in Nemesis where he has no lines and screen time measured in seconds. Neelix wasn't the character they thought he was going to be and when audiences expressed their displeasure the writers stuck with it anyway. Jar Jar Binks may have been a disaster but at least Lucas recognized that he was a disaster and reduced his role in the other prequels. When the big wigs at Voyager needed to punt someone to make way for Jeri Ryan they first chose Garret Wong. Harry Kim was indeed a bad character but Wong was voted one of People Magazine's Most Beautiful and got to stay. Punting Neelix, the character people hated, wasn't their first choice or even their second. They threw his capable, cute girlfriend off the show. She at least had some growth and a couple decent episodes. Neelix would go on to continue being annoying in almost every single episode he was in and never have an episode that elevated the character. Kim would at least always have Timeless. That episode is excellent.

People have pointed out that Jennifer Lien was already starting to fray around the edges and be why she got the boot but it was still Wong first so she couldn't have been too much of a nutter at the time. Even keeping Wong was hollow. They never really had much for Kim to do and his character would never really grow.

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I think it's weird how much you prop up Kes and dump on Neelix. Not that Neelix was good by any stretch, he wasn't. But him and Kes were both bad, and I feel she was worse (although most of that was their fault for writing her that way).

Agreed on Timeless btw, was good shit.

Merrith said:

I think it's weird how much you prop up Kes and dump on Neelix. Not that Neelix was good by any stretch, he wasn't. But him and Kes were both bad, and I feel she was worse (although most of that was their fault for writing her that way).

Agreed on Timeless btw, was good shit.

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With Kes I can look at the few good bits and see some of the potential that never was. They kept Wong because People Magazine thought him pretty. Ethan Phillips was too legitimate of an actor to discard. The show would then go on to do almost nothing of value with either character continuing in to the later seasons and show's end. If they had kept Kes instead there's no reason to think it would have gone any better. That show is notorious doing nothing with things that a clever person could have done something with.

That whole goddamn show is full of opportunities to do things that go unrealized.

Arbitrary said:

With Kes I can look at the few good bits and see some of the potential that never was. They kept Wong because People Magazine thought him pretty. Ethan Phillips was too legitimate of an actor to discard. The show would then go on to do almost nothing of value with either character continuing in to the later seasons and show's end. If they had kept Kes instead there's no reason to think it would have gone any better. That show is notorious doing nothing with things that a clever person could have done something with.

That whole goddamn show is full of opportunities to do things that go unrealized.

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Well they fucked up Kes from the start writing her race as only living for 9 years. Also what did I miss with Wong was he some problem child behind the scenes?

I'm currently doing a Voyager watch and I'm in the middle of s6 right now. I started this a couple years ago but got bored and stopped in Season 4 some time I believe. The problem with an ensemble show like this is you have to throw a bone to the actors every once in a while so you get some terrible episodes.

It's quite clear than they eventually learned with the addition of 7 of 9 that episodes featuring her and/or the doc were much more interesting, even so you have to deal with a Tuvok (is this guy the least interesting main character Vulcan in any show?) , Chakotay, Neelix episode, etc etc.

The quality of this series compared to Discovery or Picard shits on both. More happens in a single episode than whatever has happened in these shit shows. Yeah there are some real turds, but with that comes some real greatness. I guess that's one of the issues with the current format. Throw away episodes must advance the same story and don't have to have any real revelation or theme.

I enjoyed the bits with Riker and Troi and honestly this episode was the first one that felt like Trek to me...then they had the retarded Borg action movie scenes with Faux Legolas. I'm still watching but didn't really want to shit on this more. I fucking hate it, but maybe you could cut it in half and have something decent, I dunno.

You fuckers brought me back in here with your Voyager talk.

(which I'm finding a new fucking appreciation for with what is currently Trek)

Merrith said:

Also what did I miss with Wong was he some problem child behind the scenes?

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There just wasn't anything to do with his boring character, nothing wrong with the actor.

He was the wong actor in the wrong place. Ba-dum-tsh (can’ believe you missed that one, Gavinmad )