Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017)
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Daezuel
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ohkcrlho
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Ome
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Wow. Is that the first time slow-motion was ever used in a Star Wars movie? That looks really out of place.
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Muligan
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Yeah... that's a little stupid but people wanted BA Luke Jedi so I guess this is their way of showcasing his power..... also...
He's a projection which makes a little more sense why he could do such silliness. Doesn't bother me honestly. I think maybe the overuse humor may be a bigger issue than stuff like this Matrix stuff.
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Went to a midnight screening last night, had some time to mull it over
Thinking back on the trailer "This is not going to go the way you think" kinda sums up the whole movie. Lots I did enjoy (the shots for the cut in half star destroyer were fucking money) but I'm still reserved on whether it was the right way to go. Just because you can subvert expectations doesn't mean you should. Some of it played out as "Ah, we aren't doing it this way because that would be too obvious!". Sometimes the obvious choice is obvious because it makes the most sense, if you are going to rupture that you better have solid reasoning and foundation instead of "Hah tricked ya!". You could argue the obvious choice makes for a boring movie but I think it's all in the execution.
Watching TFA right before watching TLJ makes it apparent just how much wasted time there is in the first movie. TLJ stands on it's on two feet more than TFA as a single movie at the expense of undermining it's predecessor by outright dismissing things the first movie introduced. Expectations were only formed because of how elements were initially presented, then you throw all that away for a quick payoff. Who is Snoke? fucking nobody that's who. Who are Rey's parents? junkie fucks. That's not even touching Luke's characterisation. Makes me wonder what that leaves for 9.
Failure and expectations were a thematic constant in both main plot and subplots. I'm not as pissy about it as this probably reads, just not a fan of being different for the sake of being different. Who knows, maybe they decided to tear things down this time to say it was important all along in Episode 9.
Watching TFA right before watching TLJ makes it apparent just how much wasted time there is in the first movie. TLJ stands on it's on two feet more than TFA as a single movie at the expense of undermining it's predecessor by outright dismissing things the first movie introduced. Expectations were only formed because of how elements were initially presented, then you throw all that away for a quick payoff. Who is Snoke? fucking nobody that's who. Who are Rey's parents? junkie fucks. That's not even touching Luke's characterisation. Makes me wonder what that leaves for 9.
Failure and expectations were a thematic constant in both main plot and subplots. I'm not as pissy about it as this probably reads, just not a fan of being different for the sake of being different. Who knows, maybe they decided to tear things down this time to say it was important all along in Episode 9.
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Feanor
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If MCU movies are generally not good enough pop culture movies, what exactly do you expect Star Wars to be?
I don't want Star Wars to turn into some indie movie bullshit. I just want it to be awesome and kick ass for two hours.
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Runnen
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[Contains minor spoilers]
Whenever I see one of those new Star Wars movies, I always get some odd feelings or vibes from some scenes. In TFA it was the Han Solo scenes on the freighter with rathtars and the gangs. In TLJ, it's the Canto Blite casino planet and the related scenes. Now, those scenes have flaws obviously, almost nothing is perfect in those movies (or the old ones), but most of this odd feeling comes from seeing those gangs we've never heard of, those millenials playing thugs, odd unknown species on the casino planet (which we have also never heard of before). It feels off, it doesn't feel like Star Wars.
I've thought about it and I think it stems from the fact that it's new, and Star Wars fans don't like things that are new, to quote Plinkett. Star Wars has been for many years now this comfortably established mythos where every minute detail, every background character is known, features in video games, novels, comics... Everything is described in excruciating detail in encyclopedias, wiki pages... It's become a bit like Tolkien mythos, where everything that ever was and will be has already been written and analyzed and you cannot include something new without it seeming derivative or feeling off-key.
This new trilogy treaded familiar paths in TFA and was criticized for relying too heavily on the old movies, though it also established a few new things, and TLJ continues this trend of going into new directions (with still a few callbacks). It might be time for some of us to re-evaluate whether we like Star Wars for what it is and don't need anything more to it, or for what it is and could yet be, and appreciate new ideas, new directions, fresh blood being pumped into it.
Now obviously it doesn't mean that every new idea is going to be good, every direction should be explored and every good idea is going to be well-executed.
We still have the right to dislike how something was handled, told, shown or explained, or lack thereof.
But when I hear things like people complaining that we are never explained who Snoke is/was, well I find it a bit odd because we also new nothing about the Emperor in ESB/ROTJ. All we knew is he ruled the Empire, we had no idea how he came to power, who he was before, his name, his abilities, his motives. We knew he was evil because he looked evil. So does Snoke. We only learned the Emperor was Palpatine in supplemental content (trading cards, novelizations...), we only learned about his past in 1999 and beyond with the prequel trilogy.
Things that are new should be taken as new things, they won't come with fully developped wikia pages and a brochure to tell you every detail, that's going to be filled in years to come, in prequels to the sequels (bet we'll see that someday), maybe a spinoff dedicated to Snoke or the Academy's destruction and fall of Luke as promising Jedi Master.
Anyway, TL;DR for some, but this isn't even meant to defend TLJ, it stands on its own, it's entertaining, some will enjoy it others will hate it and others yet (like me) will love some parts and will be more "meh" about a few others. But reading this thread made me think on the subject and I wanted to share my thoughts.
Whenever I see one of those new Star Wars movies, I always get some odd feelings or vibes from some scenes. In TFA it was the Han Solo scenes on the freighter with rathtars and the gangs. In TLJ, it's the Canto Blite casino planet and the related scenes. Now, those scenes have flaws obviously, almost nothing is perfect in those movies (or the old ones), but most of this odd feeling comes from seeing those gangs we've never heard of, those millenials playing thugs, odd unknown species on the casino planet (which we have also never heard of before). It feels off, it doesn't feel like Star Wars.
I've thought about it and I think it stems from the fact that it's new, and Star Wars fans don't like things that are new, to quote Plinkett. Star Wars has been for many years now this comfortably established mythos where every minute detail, every background character is known, features in video games, novels, comics... Everything is described in excruciating detail in encyclopedias, wiki pages... It's become a bit like Tolkien mythos, where everything that ever was and will be has already been written and analyzed and you cannot include something new without it seeming derivative or feeling off-key.
This new trilogy treaded familiar paths in TFA and was criticized for relying too heavily on the old movies, though it also established a few new things, and TLJ continues this trend of going into new directions (with still a few callbacks). It might be time for some of us to re-evaluate whether we like Star Wars for what it is and don't need anything more to it, or for what it is and could yet be, and appreciate new ideas, new directions, fresh blood being pumped into it.
Now obviously it doesn't mean that every new idea is going to be good, every direction should be explored and every good idea is going to be well-executed.
We still have the right to dislike how something was handled, told, shown or explained, or lack thereof.
But when I hear things like people complaining that we are never explained who Snoke is/was, well I find it a bit odd because we also new nothing about the Emperor in ESB/ROTJ. All we knew is he ruled the Empire, we had no idea how he came to power, who he was before, his name, his abilities, his motives. We knew he was evil because he looked evil. So does Snoke. We only learned the Emperor was Palpatine in supplemental content (trading cards, novelizations...), we only learned about his past in 1999 and beyond with the prequel trilogy.
Things that are new should be taken as new things, they won't come with fully developped wikia pages and a brochure to tell you every detail, that's going to be filled in years to come, in prequels to the sequels (bet we'll see that someday), maybe a spinoff dedicated to Snoke or the Academy's destruction and fall of Luke as promising Jedi Master.
Anyway, TL;DR for some, but this isn't even meant to defend TLJ, it stands on its own, it's entertaining, some will enjoy it others will hate it and others yet (like me) will love some parts and will be more "meh" about a few others. But reading this thread made me think on the subject and I wanted to share my thoughts.
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Feanor
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Only skimmed a few lines. I'll read your post after I watch the movie.
I trust foh members' opinions over youtube reviews and shit.
I trust foh members' opinions over youtube reviews and shit.
Couldn't disagree more. I think most people want new good shit. Have some balls, do something original, take a risk.
That's the way to do it. I like this guy's attitude.
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Runnen
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Hehe when you've seen the movie and read my full post (maybe) you'll see we actually agree, I'm all for new things being brought into Star Wars. I was just saying that I think a lot of people don't easily connect with those new movies because they are new and nothing new has happened in Star Wars in so long that it feels foreign and weird.
jayrebb
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While I agree its a little early for a complete Star Wars facelift....let's STOP and remember that George gave it a facelift with the release of the prequels.
This included added technology, special effects, CGI, and new camera work that wasn't possible with 1970s production techniques.
The prequels for all of their faults were still Star Wars and loved by many who weren't choking on hipster elitist dick over at RLM. I'd need to hear what these hypercritical people think of the prequels versus the TLJ production in order to rate their reactions.
TLJ seems to be doing similar stuff as the prequels-- i.e. a facelift.
What is the difference?
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Muligan
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I'm going to watch it at 7:00 pm tonight but i've read quite a bit as I wasn't too sure when my schedule would cooperate. Anyway, Johnson seems to be in a lose / lose situation. TFA was slightly panned for its similarities and he's now responsible for showing he can developing some new with the trilogy he's signed up for so he has to not walk the same line as the original movies but prove he's willing and able to take the franchise in new directions. However, I could agree more with an earlier post. It sounds as if they took liberties for the purpose of just being different and that's not good. It's not to say the movie isn't worth a high grade but I felt you can take some of the same steps without being replicas. I'll share parts i'm somewhat sad about once I see it for myself but it sounds like both TFA and TLJ are really receive their true worth once this thing concludes. I felt LOTR movies were like this as well. I read the books but Peter Jackson's adaptations seems to be better once you watched the next one. FotR was probably my least favorite of the three, and maybe still is, but I like watching it so much better now that i've seen the other movies.