Starfield - Fallout fallout that isn't ES6

Tuco

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I'm a retard that loves everything about flying spaceships in video games. Eve online, Homeworld, and the X- series are my favorite games. Should I buy this game, or should I buy it twice?
I'm still in early-mid game, but the spaceship flying mechanics and gameplay is pretty basic in Starfield and the content is thin. Space combat is more of a minigame than an alternate to the primary gameplay mode of shooting/exploring.
 

sleevedraw

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Now I want to revisit skyrim after 12 years. I don't remember this really.

Try allying with the Stormcloaks and talking to him between quests. You'll see how conflicted about the whole thing he really is. Or if you side with the Empire and play through to the end of the MSQ,
he'll appear in Sovngarde before your confrontation with Alduin and lament how good people on both sides of the conflict are dying, which he feels some responsibility for.

His relationship with Scouts-Many-Marshes (he's the Argonian who is most conciliatory towards the Nords and just wants everyone to "get along") isn't directly touched on in the game itself, but if you pull out the Creation Kit, they are set as friends. If you make the choice to side with the Stormcloaks as a non-Nord (I usually play Argonian), Ulfric will ask why you want to join. One of the answers basically boils down to "Because I consider Skyrim home, too," and he makes no attempt to rebut you.
 

TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
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FWIW, while Skyrim's MSQ was yawn, it felt like a definite step up from FO3 (although probably mostly because of Paarthurnax and Brodahviing.)

As for factions, I loved the Civil War quest series.
  • Ulfric was a great character (simultaneously a guy who wants to be decisive but has massive personal doubts about his own competence; a guy who talks a good game about Skyrim being "for the Nords" yet is secretly friends with at least one of the Windhelm Argonians, etc.)
  • Some legitimately interesting questions about whether it's better to try to keep a failing Empire on life support versus making a clean break and trying something new (questions with interesting parallels to the present)

And/or https://stepmodifications.org/wiki/SkyrimSE:2.2.0
 
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Furry

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I'm still in early-mid game, but the spaceship flying mechanics and gameplay is pretty basic in Starfield and the content is thin. Space combat is more of a minigame than an alternate to the primary gameplay mode of shooting/exploring.
If I want to pull out the spreadsheets, trojan condom, energy drinks, divining rod and abacus to calculate space combat, I got Eve online. Space combat is usually super boring. NMS basically just had you pull your mouse back and hold mouse button 2 and you auto killed enemies. X I think you made the huge leap forward of pointing your mouse at the enemy and holding button 1.

I don't care what the mechanics are so long as I'm in SPACE.
 
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TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
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I'm still in early-mid game, but the spaceship flying mechanics and gameplay is pretty basic in Starfield and the content is thin. Space combat is more of a minigame than an alternate to the primary gameplay mode of shooting/exploring.

A more elaborate space flying system will be modded in. It has decent enough physics for it.
 

pwe

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Who ordered a space game? They could have made Skyrim 2 and I would have been all over it like a fat kid in a candy store.
 
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TJT

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Also stealth and pickpocketing (along with many others) as features behind locked behind an initial skill point drop is stupid. Who thought of that shit?
 
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Tuco

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A more elaborate space flying system will be modded in. It has decent enough physics for it.
I'd definitely be up for playing a huge content mod that just adds zones to explore in your space ship. I'm really surprised there's nothing like that (yet) in Starfield.
 

Sylas

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Try allying with the Stormcloaks and talking to him between quests. You'll see how conflicted about the whole thing he really is. Or if you side with the Empire and play through to the end of the MSQ,
he'll appear in Sovngarde before your confrontation with Alduin and lament how good people on both sides of the conflict are dying, which he feels some responsibility for.

His relationship with Scouts-Many-Marshes (he's the Argonian who is most conciliatory towards the Nords and just wants everyone to "get along") isn't directly touched on in the game itself, but if you pull out the Creation Kit, they are set as friends. If you make the choice to side with the Stormcloaks as a non-Nord (I usually play Argonian), Ulfric will ask why you want to join. One of the answers basically boils down to "Because I consider Skyrim home, too," and he makes no attempt to rebut you.
The most interesting thing about ulfric you discover during the main quest when you raid the Thalmor embassy and discover that during the war when Ulfric was captured he was turned via torture and gave up his compatriots and all the intel he had. That shame and his hatred for the Thalmor more than anything lead to the Stormcloak rebellion, and the outlawing of talos worship is just a rallying cry that he uses to frame the rebellion but has nothing to actually do with it.
 
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Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
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If I want to pull out the spreadsheets, trojan condom, energy drinks, divining rod and abacus to calculate space combat, I got Eve online. Space combat is usually super boring. NMS basically just had you pull your mouse back and hold mouse button 2 and you auto killed enemies. X I think you made the huge leap forward of pointing your mouse at the enemy and holding button 1.

I don't care what the mechanics are so long as I'm in SPACE.
I'd say that a space enthusiast would enjoy Starfield because you get to explore planets / moons in a semi-realistic universe. That was one of my favorite parts of Mass Effect 1. One of the things I kind of miss is that in Starfield there aren't verbose descriptions of the planets that expand the game's lore. I loved the variety of these in Mass Effect 1, where some were really interesting snippets of SciFi, ex:


I remember one planet that was absolutely perfect for human colonization except that it was completely covered by thimble-sized bacteria that were very fatal to humans. Starfield having these kinds of descriptions that match the underlying planet would do a lot to add depth to planet exploration.
 
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TJT

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Another thing I dislike. In previous titles whenever you steal something the item in question has a red highlight. In this game its just a tiny little icon on the tooltip and much less obvious.

I mean, yes BGS is known for trash UIs but they impressively made an objectively worse UI than they made in base skyrim in 2011. Like I ain't even mad. It's incredible.
 
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Zefah

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The DF guys made this point: Whereas Skyrim or Fallout were limited to a single Kingdom or type of terrain, this has a bunch of different environments. In no way can you classify this as "low effort" FFS: It's a Bethesda game, with all of benefits and limitations that come with their design language and methodology. They applied that methodology to a Sci-Fi Space setting, with updated graphics and a brand new IP. Its not as good as people inflated it to be, nor is it as bad as people are making it out to be with that kind of rhetoric.

There were tons of environment types in Skyrim. I have no idea how many there are in Starfield, but from my initial impressions it sure does seem like it's a lot of empty space with occasional prefab structures housing space pirates or whatever here and there.

I hope this changes as I play more, but I haven't played a Bethesda game that felt this desolate and uninteresting in the first few hours before.
 
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Furry

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divining rod and abacus to calculate space combat
For some reason I reminded myself of the yearly Eve-Online PVP tournament, where the team I was captaining knocked out the favorites to win the tournament. They had a pretty strong set of ships they had brought against all the trash unknown teams. I made a super gimmicky speed setup designed to counter their setup specifically. They would have raped our team if they brought anything other than the ships they brought in all their other fights. Every single one of our ships was kitted for ridiculous speed with extremely little armour or shields, but their team was exclusively using missiles, which do huge damage, but in extremely edge cases will do no damage at all to ships flying faster than their blast waves.

We blew up their one small ship then I had my whole team set orbits on them and go afk for 15 minutes. I literally left my computer for most of the fight. I remember the laplandish paramilitary guy on our team going "THIS IS NOT HONORABLE!!!" when I said I was gonna go eat, see you in 10 minutes. At 15 minutes of nothing at all happening, we won on points because they hadn't managed to kill a single one of our ships. SPACE COMBAT!!
 
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Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
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There were tons of environment types in Skyrim. I have no idea how many there are in Starfield, but from my initial impressions it sure does seem like it's a lot of empty space with occasional prefab structures housing space pirates or whatever here and there.

I hope this changes as I play more, but I haven't played a Bethesda game that felt this desolate and uninteresting in the first few hours before.
I actually think there are too many structures in Starfield. I expected a mechanic where you'd use your ship to scan for structures on a planet and there'd be like, 4 on a shithole planet. Instead you can drop into an arbitrary location and surprise surprise there's a huge factory a kilometer away.
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
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For some reason I reminded myself of the yearly Eve-Online PVP tournament, where the team I was captaining knocked out the favorites to win the tournament. They had a pretty strong set of ships they had brought against all the trash unknown teams. I made a super gimmicky speed setup designed to counter their setup specifically. They would have raped our team if they brought anything other than the ships they brought in all their other fights. Every single one of our ships was kitted for ridiculous speed with extremely little armour or shields, but their team was exclusively using missiles, which do huge damage, but in extremely edge cases will do no damage at all to ships flying faster than their blast waves.

We blew up their one small ship then I had my whole team set orbits on them and go afk for 15 minutes. I literally left my computer for most of the fight. I remember the laplandish paramilitary guy on our team going "THIS IS NOT HONORABLE!!!" when I said I was gonna go eat, see you in 10 minutes. At 15 minutes of nothing at all happening, we won on points because they hadn't managed to kill a single one of our ships. SPACE COMBAT!!
I remember doing this build in Mechwarrior. Pick the fastest mech, put all points into speed, have some needledick weapon and just run at mach3 and the enemy couldn't hit you as your jousted them down.
 
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Cinge

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Pro-tip - do not install on a non-SSD. Virtually unplayable. My fault for being lazy I know, but if you don't have enough space, clear some up and save the pain ;p

First impression other than that is - eh, ok. The thing I was most surprised by coming from B3 was actually how awful the talking head animations are. The starfield ones are very obviously one size fits all 'rubber mask' style animations, the difference is pretty stark. I am assuming BG3 is using some kind of face capture on the voice actors? Sometimes there's no substitute for actually putting the work in I guess.

iirc BG3 went crazy. They did motion capture for all their dialogue.

Its probably why it feels so off in this game. Doesn't help the mouth is out of sync with the words and the mouth, where your eyes focus, gets no light.
 
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Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
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iirc BG3 went crazy. They did motion capture for all their dialogue.
I love that within the span of a couple months two games were released that tried to push the boundaries on facial dialog animations. BG3 with their full mocap for all the things and Starfield for procedural stuff. BG3 obviously looks way better, but Starfield's procedural stuff serves as a better platform for mods, especially with ElevenLabs. I'm curious about what it takes to add facial animations to modded dialog and how that works, but I think it's intended to be easy to do?
 
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Cinge

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I actually think there are too many structures in Starfield. I expected a mechanic where you'd use your ship to scan for structures on a planet and there'd be like, 4 on a shithole planet. Instead you can drop into an arbitrary location and surprise surprise there's a huge factory a kilometer away.

This is where their procedural stuff is. The POI you can see from space are set in stone, then no matter where you land it generates more. When you look at a planet from the star map it will have little dots on it. The amount of dots is equal the set in stone POI it has.
 
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Fight

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I played it for 4 hours last night. The game is kind of boring.

It really did feel like Fallout in Space. Fallout in space is fine, but it is pretty uninspired. The other first impression that smacks you upside the head is the amount of loading screens. Holy fuck, every 30 seconds a loading screen. At least they are fast on the Series X.

They should have bought the No Man's Sky team and really done something with the IP and funding that a studio like Bethesda can bring to bear.

This just feels bland, formulaic, and far too familiar for a new IP that was in development for 8 years.
 
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