SteamOS

a_skeleton_03

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First I'm mostly concerned about AAA games (Even though I play a ton of indie games we're talking market acceptance here). Second I would argue that games that run on opengl but not on any PC don't support opengl in the perspective we're referencing.
OpenGL is OpenGL.

DirectX is on EVERY Windows computer so when they release the game on Windows they make the game DX.

They can easily take these consoles games and put them on SteamOS with less effort than it would to make them Windows compatible. You wouldn't see a single game not on PC and console both.
 

Araxen

Golden Baronet of the Realm
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I wonder if they'll somehow leverage how much of a cut they take from each sale on Steam. Say like make your game SteamOS compatible and we'll only take 15-20% instead of the normal 30-40% from each sale. It'll be interesting to see how they get the AAA titles on SteamOS.
 

Northerner

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I think that's very likely in some manner but still, don't discount the value of Steamworks itself. Developers may or may not like Steam at times but business weasels fuckinglovethat shit. They can pull all the numbers they need to defend their existence at the next board meeting and hey, at the same time offload a lot of the usual work to Valve's services.

The tricky bit (again) for trying to price SteamOS version differently is that they never have in the past. If you own one version in the Steam universe then you can load up any version, anywhere, anytime. It's not a stance they are likely to change so they can't really segment the market that easily. Now, perhaps they can offer the "hey, but up a working SOS version as well and we'll take only 27% on all versions" but we'll see.

I think their timing here might actually be goddamned brilliant. Sell the preconfigured boxes as a TV media streaming box with some additional toys. That's good for some sales right there, just like some bought the PS3 as a bluray player. Toss in a bunch of free (old) games to get people used to the idea of using it for that too. Maybe a tech-demo kinda thing to show off how good it is for what it's doing but whatever you do, get big numbers for downloads and hopefully for the registered boxes too. At the other end, push the dev community to make new games and stress to them that getting off the MS teat is going to save them millions down the road. Flash some performance numbers around and poke at source2.

Then, next year sometime when the first round of real titles are appearing for the PS4/XBO, drop HL3 on the system. If your balls are massive, make it exclusive.
 

Sean_sl

shitlord
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I don't disagree, my point is mostly that 7~ yrs ago, no one was using OpenGL, now it has near dominance everywhere except high end pc and ms consoles. Dx is (one of) the primary reasons you don't see many high end games be cross platform.

This is going to probably change a lot with ps4, right now ps3s version of OpenGL is pretty much custom. With ps4 using x86 architecture and standard OpenGL, on FreeBSD no less...well, the games are already compatible with nix/osx at that point. Porting will be trivial(as trivial as it can be at least).

Tl;dr version: dx has lost all its momentum and OpenGL has massive traction. It might not be next year, or year after, but I bet 5-6yrs from now you'll see dx no where but xbone or xbone2(xboner?). There's just no business case for dx anymore.

I'm pretty sure gabe and crew came to same conclusion long before I did, lol.
Yeah, and the PS4's Time to Triangle is estimated to be only 1-2 months Vs. the current 6-12 months. It's likely to be the primary dev SKU being that it'll be the easiest platform to develop for, which should be a pretty big boon for SteamOS and porting. I think SteamOS will start off pretty rocky since current linux ports are pretty limited in number, but they'll probably become the norm as the next generation of games phases in. As soon as the cross-generation ports taper off especially, since that'll free up a ton of resources for people to not have to spend time and money on X360/PS3 builds which take up a metric fuckton of both.
 
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Does Valve give anything back to the development community? That post is really condescending towards Microsoft because they don't give anything away but I'm unaware if Valve publishes stuff openly available or makes publicly available modifications to open source projects.
Valve hired Sam Lantinga, who is the creator of SDL. SDL is an open-source cross-platform library for handling OS-specific "glue" code (input, windowing, etc). They are paying him to work full-time on it and they have already started using it themselves.

Furthermore, I am willing to give Valve the benefit of the doubt and speculate that they are still getting their bearings in the Linux community. I think their contributions, both directly and indirectly, to open-source software will increase in the coming years.
 
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Also, it seems like a few people are really trying to push the "SteamOS is not Linux" angle in this thread. I think that assertion is flat-out wrong. Yes, SteamOS is a custom distribution that will be maintained by Valve, but it is still most certainly Linux. There is no way that Valve could modify and re-distribute the Linux kernel without also making the source code available. The GPL prohibits that.

I could be wrong, but when I hear that games will run natively on SteamOS (not the streaming solution), it sounds to me that they will be Linux compatible. Perhaps minus a little bit of tinkering that is always par for the course with different Linux distros. That's the real advantage of SteamOS IMO; that Valve will ensure a level of compatibility that will make it headache-free for people who are currently Linux-phobic.

Current Windows-only AAA titles won't work on Linux except with the SteamOS streaming option, sure, but I see no reason that next year's native SteamOS AAA titles (if Valve delivers on that promise) won't run perfectly fine on everyone's distribution of choice. I think it will be more of a "Linux-compatible, optimized for SteamOS" type of situation than a walled-garden scenario.
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
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Also, it seems like a few people are really trying to push the "SteamOS is not Linux" angle in this thread. I think that assertion is flat-out wrong. Yes, SteamOS is a custom distribution that will be maintained by Valve, but it is still most certainly Linux. There is no way that Valve could modify and re-distribute the Linux kernel without also making the source code available. The GPL prohibits that.
One big question is how difficult it'll be for games built to run natively on steamos to run on popular linux distributions like centos/ubuntu/mint.
 

Melvin

Blackwing Lair Raider
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Even if it's prohibitively difficult at first (i.e. needing to compile a custom hacked kernel and satisfy multiple dependencies with packages/versions that aren't readily available for the popular distros), the long history of geeks being geeks makes me think that it'll only get easier as time goes on. I mean, as long as SteamOS doesn't completely flop anyway.

I feel pretty safe predicting that SteamOS is going to be a bigger deal that ChromeOS, but probably not as big of a deal as Android.
 

hodj

Vox Populi Jihadi
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Relevant

http://arstechnica.com/information-t...source-driver/

Few companies have been the target of as much criticism in the Linux community as Nvidia. Linus Torvalds himself last year called Nvidia the "single worst company" Linux developers have ever worked with, giving the company his middle finger in a public talk.

Nvidia is now trying to get on Linux developers' good side. Yesterday, Nvidia's Andy Ritger e-mailed developers of Nouveau, an open source driver for Nvidia cards that is built by reverse engineering Nvidia's proprietary drivers. Ritger wrote that "NVIDIA is releasing public documentation on certain aspects of our GPUs, with the intent to address areas that impact the out-of-the-box usability of NVIDIA GPUs with Nouveau. We intend to provide more documentation over time, and guidance in additional areas as we are able."

The first step was releasing documentation of the Device Control Block (DCB) layout in Nvidia's VBIOS, describing the board's topology and display connectors. Ritger continued:

I suspect much of the information in that document is not news for the Nouveau community, but hopefully it will be helpful to confirm your understanding or flesh out the implementation of a few unhandled cases.

A few of us who work on NVIDIA's proprietary Linux GPU driver will pay attention to nouveau at lists.freedesktop.org and try to chime in when we can.

If there are specific areas of documentation that would most help you, that feedback would help NVIDIA prioritize our documentation efforts.

If you have specific questions for NVIDIA, you can ask here, or direct them to: open-gpu-doc at nvidia.com. I can't promise we'll be able to answer everything, but we'll provide best-effort in areas where we are able.
The gesture was well-received. In response, Maarten Lankhorst of Canonical wrote, "You rock!" Lankhorst added, "Our biggest struggle at the moment is the video clocking and power management, which is highly device specific and depends on configuration too. A complete video bios documentation would be nice too, I understand that will take a bit longer than just the dcb."

I popped into the Nouveau IRC channel this morning to get the developers' take on the significance of the news. They confirmed that they already knew much of the information in the DCB documentation but said that it may "help us find a few corner cases for cards we don't own" and allow them "to handle uncommon cases we haven't seen in the wild."

One developer said, "The stuff Nvidia wants to offer in the future is much more interesting, really. That does sound like a good start, though."

Nvidia's move this week (on the same day that Valve announced a new Linux-based operating system for gaming) is a change of heart from the position it took last year after Torvalds' criticism. At the time, Nvidia told Tom's Hardware, "While we understand that some people would prefer us to provide detailed documentation on all of our GPU internals or be more active in Linux kernel community development discussions, we have made a decision to support Linux on our GPUs by leveraging Nvidia common code rather than the Linux common infrastructure. While this may not please everyone, it does allow us to provide the most consistent GPU experience to our customers, regardless of platform or operating system."

We've e-mailed Ritger, Torvalds, and Linux kernel maintainer Greg Kroah-Hartman to get more information and reactions, and we will update this post if we hear back from them.

UPDATE: Torvalds has responded to Ars, saying he's optimistic but not quite ready to apologize to Nvidia. "We'll see," Torvalds wrote in an e-mail. "I'm cautiously optimistic that this is a real shift in how Nvidia perceives Linux. The actual docs released so far are fairly limited, and in themselves they wouldn't be a big thing, but if Nvidia really does follow up and start opening up more, that would certainly be great.

"They've already been much better in the ARM SoC space than they were on the more traditional GPU side, and I really hope that some day I can just apologize for ever giving them the finger."

Kroah-Hartman responded as well, saying, "It's very significant, and very nice to see happen."

UPDATE 2: Ritger responded to our questions regarding what Nvidia plans to do next. He wrote that "more BIOS-related information is in the pipeline," and that "Our goal is for the Nouveau driver to give NVIDIA users a reasonable out-of-the-box experience. This entails things like successful GPU initialization, display configuration, and basic 2D and 3D rendering. The DCB and other BIOS-related information will hopefully help improve some scenarios where Nouveau had initialization problems, or display enumeration sorts of challenges."

What information Nvidia releases will be "largely based on feedback from the Nouveau community," he also wrote. "So far, feedback from Nouveau guys has been that the DCB spec is actually more useful than I expected it to be, which is great news."
 

Skanda

I'm Amod too!
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It's obvious Linus is correct with Lynn-ucks where as that dumb bastard who invented .gif (It's a hard G god damn it!) files can't speak english.
 

a_skeleton_03

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Guys. The third announcement will be at Friday 27.9. 27 divided by 9 is 3. I'm going to let that sink in to your brains for a minute. <-- stole this from reddit

Second announcement in 2 hours.
 

DickTrickle

Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
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Guys. The third announcement will be at Friday 27.9. 27 divided by 9 is 3. I'm going to let that sink in to your brains for a minute. <-- stole this from reddit

Second announcement in 2 hours.
I'm sure their whole HL3 reveal strategy was focused on making sure the day divided by the month equaled three.