Super Knight Man in Steel - Made by Our Own pwe!
- Thread starter pwe
- Start date
Do complain. I haven't really looked at the numbers since I want some more nice knife upgrades and that might mess it up again (ex knifes jumps to a nearby target for less damage)
Edit: I think you missed the unintentionally way too easy version.
Last edited:
Caliane
Avatar of War Slayer
- 15,949
- 12,608
I think its that on paper the first rank of crit is by itself actually a damage loss.
100 damage per hit. 5% crit chance. at 50% increased damage on crits. that'd be 102.5% damage average. a 5% chance of 150 damage. 95% chance of 100. 95+7.5= 102.5.
so, whats 100 per hit, +10% chance, -10% damage? 85% chance of 90 damage, and 15% of 135. 76.5+20.25= 96.75.
(assuming crit chance is even additive, and not 10% increase of 5%)
so the "problem" here is crits don't do +100% damage by default, with that 10% for 10% ratio. The thing is... is that actually a problem? once you DO get crit damage buffs, over 100%, it becomes a buff. taking something that makes you weaker, NOW, but promises to be stronger later, is not innately a bad thing. the issue is that later investment does need to pay off. think in Vamp survivers and the glyph destroying exp, but then later giving bonus exp. or general xp buffs which delay your power, but give you exp, thus more power later in return.
What cooldown reduction formula are you using? thats also a newbie trap? is 100% cooldown reduction zero cd, or half?
Cooldown × (1 - reduction) 10s cd, with 1-100% cdr= 0cd. thats bad, and breaks stuff thats CD based. cooldown/(1+reduction) however flips it. 10s cd with 100% crd= 5s cd, 200%cdr=3.3s cd, 200000% cdr=.005s. it will never hit 0. (note if you change this, you'll probably want to double the cooldown reduction values to compensate)
and IS crit % additive?
100 damage per hit. 5% crit chance. at 50% increased damage on crits. that'd be 102.5% damage average. a 5% chance of 150 damage. 95% chance of 100. 95+7.5= 102.5.
so, whats 100 per hit, +10% chance, -10% damage? 85% chance of 90 damage, and 15% of 135. 76.5+20.25= 96.75.
(assuming crit chance is even additive, and not 10% increase of 5%)
so the "problem" here is crits don't do +100% damage by default, with that 10% for 10% ratio. The thing is... is that actually a problem? once you DO get crit damage buffs, over 100%, it becomes a buff. taking something that makes you weaker, NOW, but promises to be stronger later, is not innately a bad thing. the issue is that later investment does need to pay off. think in Vamp survivers and the glyph destroying exp, but then later giving bonus exp. or general xp buffs which delay your power, but give you exp, thus more power later in return.
What cooldown reduction formula are you using? thats also a newbie trap? is 100% cooldown reduction zero cd, or half?
Cooldown × (1 - reduction) 10s cd, with 1-100% cdr= 0cd. thats bad, and breaks stuff thats CD based. cooldown/(1+reduction) however flips it. 10s cd with 100% crd= 5s cd, 200%cdr=3.3s cd, 200000% cdr=.005s. it will never hit 0. (note if you change this, you'll probably want to double the cooldown reduction values to compensate)
and IS crit % additive?
Last edited:
- 1
- 1,694
- 5,387
If my math is right, its too punishing on your main weapon:
Assuming the 10% crit chance with 10% dmg reduction and 150% crit damage its a significant damage loss and the numbers go down which feels bad.
Only after 3 crit dmg upgrades (20% each to make it 210%) does it start being a tiny damage increase but the numbers still go down a lot.
If the reduction got changed to 5% knife dmg it would have no impact on the knife damage at 150% crit dmg, so not a damage loss on your main weapon:
Every crit dmg upgrade will be a more significant increase in knife dmg.
Still, in the end it feels really bad to see your main weapon numbers go down.
Maybe the downside could be less knife frequency? That would still keep the theme of sacrificing main weapon to better everything else while feeling overall a little better and its something that you can even pick as you go in the game if you want.
- 1
Caliane
Avatar of War Slayer
- 15,949
- 12,608
well, double checking it IS ALL crit 10%, and dagger -10% damage. so thats a balancing feature already.
I've never been a fan of crit/crit damage in games. I find it tends to be fairly op every time its in games. PVP especially. you can heal through steady damage, but 1% chance to oneshot can't be defended against. but the issue still applies to most games with it.
Path of exile handles crits well. (it does also have the crit/crit damage problem) but it also smartlydid something else. Crits apply ailments. freeze, burn, shock, stun.
That would work great here imho. If crits applied a stun, pushback, or bleed effect for example. its way more interesting then just double dipping damage scaling.
I've never been a fan of crit/crit damage in games. I find it tends to be fairly op every time its in games. PVP especially. you can heal through steady damage, but 1% chance to oneshot can't be defended against. but the issue still applies to most games with it.
Path of exile handles crits well. (it does also have the crit/crit damage problem) but it also smartlydid something else. Crits apply ailments. freeze, burn, shock, stun.
That would work great here imho. If crits applied a stun, pushback, or bleed effect for example. its way more interesting then just double dipping damage scaling.
- 3
Runnen
Vyemm Raider
- 1,912
- 4,627
Any way you could put in keybindings? I don't use a QWERTY so that makes the game really hard to play since WASD for me is ZQSD and positionning my fingers over the actual WASD keys makes them completely counterintuitive.
I'd like to say the game is fun but I die in 20 seconds due to the keys requirement, but I do like the music.
I'd like to say the game is fun but I die in 20 seconds due to the keys requirement, but I do like the music.
Last edited:
Arrow keys works too, if they have better placement. Keybinding is nice... I guess it wouldn't be a big effort. It's just that it only benefits the minority
I will add it, never implemented it before so will be fun.This is a goldmine!
My plan is:
- Keybinding.
- Use a few days to finish the boss (no time tomorrow).
- Add a few final abilities, aiming for something that is fun to use and not just damage.
- Possibly extending beyond 15 minutes, that would be very easy.
- Adding more variety, like more formations.
- Balancing from scratch (will look at your mathy comments).
- possibly: Keybinding and partial controller support
- Something else will probably come up and ruin the plan.
My plan is:
- Use a few days to finish the boss (no time tomorrow).
- Add a few final abilities, aiming for something that is fun to use and not just damage.
- Possibly extending beyond 15 minutes, that would be very easy.
- Adding more variety, like more formations.
- Balancing from scratch (will look at your mathy comments).
- possibly: Keybinding and partial controller support
- Something else will probably come up and ruin the plan.
Last edited:
First try... I assume you already had some upgrades? Because I am getting my duck kicked by the large formation at ~6:20.
That moves keybinding down the list
Might just do partial controller support at the same time (just in-game upgrades/pause, not main menu).Cooldown reduction:
Initial:
public float SawBladeBaseCd = 6.0f;
public float SawBladeCdMul = 1.0f;
Selecting 20% reduction:
SawBladeCdMul -= 0.2f;
Cd:
nextThrow_ = GameTime + PlayerUpgrades.Data.SawBladeBaseCd * PlayerUpgrades.Data.SawBladeCdMul;
And yes, that does go to 0 which would be bad. I just made sure it couldn't happen. I didn't expect anyone to care enough to actually dig into it. /shame
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Crit is additive like this: CritValueMul += 0.2f; (percentage points)
Will definitely look into alternatives to damage, never thought of that (and I like crits in WoW and such).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edaw
Parody
- 14,387
- 98,845
Burst of frost/dagger storm is what trivializes things once you get a few upgrades. Then any combination of haste, defense, heal (i tend to take the duck heal instead of regen) will make things easy provided you keep an eye on casters. I tend to bum rush them to freeze them. The axe and saw are just gravy, so I only upgrade them when nothing better presents itself. I wasn't impressed with darkness, poison, or lightsaber penguin, so never chose them. I don't have good replacement suggestions but will give it some thought.
The only real threat I find is from casters. Change those fireballs to snowballs, increase fire rate (1.5 maybe), and make them immune to frost (for lore reasons).
There is a bit of version confusion here. Newgrounds appeared to still have an older version, which was the easy version. I now upgraded to the harder version (I think I also "tuned" (nerfed) frost) and my settings were reset. I don't have time to look into this, and probably won't since things will change a lot anyways.
- 1
"I don't have good replacement suggestions but will give it some thought."
That would be awesome! Only problem is it might be hard for me to keep up with all the information, since I unfortunately also have less fun things to do. But this thread is a log, if a bit messy.
Edit: I love the saw. The sound, the smell of burned bones, the way it sticks to targets, finds new targets.. It must be upgraded to be more worthwhile.
- 1
- 1,694
- 5,387
Napkin maths for the new More knives/More cooldown mod:
Is it additive or multiplicative?
Not related but a pierce mod would make range on knives a much more desirable stat.
An alternative to the fan of knives could be a chain effect? Where the knife jumps to the nearest enemy and then you could have more chains for this effect vs more pierce for the fan effect.
Is it additive or multiplicative?
Not related but a pierce mod would make range on knives a much more desirable stat.
An alternative to the fan of knives could be a chain effect? Where the knife jumps to the nearest enemy and then you could have more chains for this effect vs more pierce for the fan effect.
I'm not even sure how to calculate the effect of more knives and cd. As you've seen, a number of knives are thrown, with a short cd between, and then another longer cd before next round:
throw 4 knives with shortCd between (0.4 etc are added to this. If total is 4.4 it means 0.4 left for next round. So with 0.4 added every 2.5 rounds 5 are thrown instead)
then wait longCd
base short cd: 0.15
base long cd: 2.0
there is a base cd modifier of 1.0. 10% cd reduction is subtracted so 0.9 (yes that could go to 0 if choices allowed it)
both the above cd's (short and long) are multiplied by this value so with -10%, short = 0.135 and and long = 1.8.
Getting this right would be really nice.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pierce is interesting... could reduce damage after every picere. But might lose the nice feeling of hitting something. Or maybe the jump to nearby targets could use range, so it stops when range is reached?
I like the fan/dagger storm... it feels and looks good. It is balanced by the smaller knifes being only 10% of main damage. Could be reduced even more if too good? Jumping to nearest enemy could be just for the primary knife. But all these effect will scale with speed, more knifes and damage. That's why I added some quick negative effect to some upgrades.
I'll copy this for a list since I won't be looking at it until later this week.
Last edited:
