The Americans

McCheese

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I just watched the most recent episode. Wow, I wasn't expecting such a big plot moment so quickly. I figured they'd drag it out the rest of the season, or even into next season. The final scene with Agent Beeman sitting down for dinner was fantastic.
 

BrutulTM

Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.
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No posts on the finale? I thought it was pretty great. I feel sorry for Paige. She is a good girl and doesn't deserve to be in this situation. I will be interested to see how the pastor reacts. There is a certain amount of confidentiality with clergy but that might be too big a thing to keep quiet about. If they do get caught they had better hope that the Americans get to them before the Russians or they will wind up as a pile of corpses like the other family.

It seems like Philip is about ready to defect but it would be very tough to talk Elizabeth into it. I think after their trip though Elizabeth at least finally realizes that Paige is never going to be a spy.

I just wiki'd the illegals program and they really did have agents that were married and had kids at at least one of them was actually groomed as a spy. It really seems like a terrible idea to let them have kids since it is a giant conflict of interest and sooner or later the kids are going to get suspicious. I think it's tough to get into the CIA if you even have parents alive or any close family ties at all. They are actually encouraged to date other agents because that is the only way to have a relationship for a CIA agent.

I didn't really think Beeman was going to go down just from a show perspective but I'm glad he didn't.
 

spronk

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meh, this entire season has been pretty boring. Its all interesting in a historical context but they are taking the slow burn way, way, way too slow. The last 5 minutes shoulda happened 7 episodes ago.

Don't get me wrong, the last 5 minutes were absolute genius with the cuts between the characters and Reagan's good vs. evil speech. The entire season has just kinda bounced from plot to plot without really strong storylines, I wish there would have been more stuff on the mujahideen since that is fascinating especially when contrasted with our relationship with that part of the world today. Instead we got hours of Scientology, Paige liking Jesus, and Nina being bored in Siberia.

Hell there wasn't even any partial nudity sex scenes in the finale
frown.png


btw great interview with the hottest chick on TV, nina. s3 sucks just because she didn't have any nudity in it
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http://www.refinery29.com/2015/04/85...3-finale#slide
 

Lanx

<Prior Amod>
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Yea, pretty much the same for me too, i mean it wasn't ever Homeland s2 bad, it's still high caliber spy shit, just i don't remember anything being exciting besides Felicity getting her jaw Hood smashed. and they suitcased the blond.
 

Gask

Bronze Baron of the Realm
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I enjoyed the season but I agree that they shouldn't have dragged out the Paige angle for the entire run; the consistent lulls in the story devoted to that tug of war each episode was unnecessary. But that said, when they finally got going I did enjoy it quite a bit; the meeting with Elizabeth's mother was moving and understated despite being rather abrupt. It would have been interesting if they had further explored and provided some retrospective on events in Germany, South Africa and Afghanistan during the course of the season, they could have done it to some degree despite the constraints imposed by the scope of the story. At any rate it would have been relevant to our own times and intriguing.

As far as other complaints go I think it's nice to have a show like this that isn't completely given over to action.
 

Lithose

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Interspersing Phillip feeling like he's evil, with Regan declaring it was pretty heavy handed, especially given the normal lengths the show goes through to avoid the whole "Russians are bad" stuff. But sometimes, the show can come off a little comical where the writers try to shoe horn in Anti-Western sentiment. "Hurr, look at all the luxuries and choices Americans have--isn't that terrible?!?!" Well, no--no it's not? Who thinks like that. You just aren't going to convince American viewers (Or any rational person) that America was the "bad" party through the eyes of most domestic issues by the 80's--especially from the perspective of middle class white people. I mean, everytime they say "we need to bring America down", I keep saying "Why? Do you hate your awesome car, big house, plethora of entertainment and X/Y/Z awesome thing you certain would not have in Russia?" (Which they drive home with every scene of Russia being a place where hope goes to die, essentially). Don't get me wrong, I don't find it comical because I believe being Anti-Western is comical, I think it's comical from the perspective of the show, because we literally never see the downside of America through their perspective. We only ever hear about it from some new spy bro they talk to from some other country.

In short, the conflict can feel forced at times, especially given how Russia CONSTANTLY dicks them around; like the speech the one dude gave for Phil to "grow up" because he wanted his daughter and wife to see their dying grandmother.....It was almost so absurd I almost laughed. Like really? Phillip has been in their service, killing and risking his life for almost 2 decades--absolutely devoted and you just called him a fucking child because he makes a request to help stabilize his daughter after you're trying to force her into service? I mean fuck me, it's REALLY hard sometimes to immerse yourself in that level of indoctrination; especially when season 1 clearly established the Americans were paying millions for defectors.

I think that difficulty in believing the conflict stems from what people have said--this show spends too much time showing Paige, and other shitty family drama that doesn't add to being sympathetic with the Russian viewat all. It doesn't show South America, or South Africa or any of the blunders the U.S. was making at the time which would piss people off. I mean, theyTALKabout those things--but that's the classic problem, it's a bunch of tell not show. All that being said, when the show does get down to spy shit? It's some of the best stuff on TV. I wish they would focus more on that though, and emphasize showing why the two spies are so devoted, rather than saying "they are because shit is happening in X part of the world...And because some X person from that part of the world said America is really, really bad--you just need to believe we'd even be considering offering up our fucking daughter to a country which has literally asked us for our entire lives."
 

BrutulTM

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I think that's sort of the point. They came over believing that they were fighting the great Satan for the glory of mother Russia and 100% dedicated to the cause but that idea is really fucking hard to support once you're here no matter how much brainwashing you have had. At the same time you *need* to believe it if you are going to continue killing people and risking your life all of the time. Call me biased but the Americans were pretty objectively the good guys in the cold war even if they did do some bad shit along the way.
 

BrutulTM

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meh, this entire season has been pretty boring. Its all interesting in a historical context but they are taking the slow burn way, way, way too slow. The last 5 minutes shoulda happened 7 episodes ago.

Don't get me wrong, the last 5 minutes were absolute genius with the cuts between the characters and Reagan's good vs. evil speech. The entire season has just kinda bounced from plot to plot without really strong storylines, I wish there would have been more stuff on the mujahideen since that is fascinating especially when contrasted with our relationship with that part of the world today. Instead we got hours of Scientology, Paige liking Jesus, and Nina being bored in Siberia.
I really couldn't disagree more with this. I just watched all 3 seasons and I think S3 was the best one. I think part of the problem is the fact that it's about spies makes people think they're going to see a show like Homeland but this show is mostly character driven and the spy stuff is more of a sidebar. Mad Men fans should be watching this show, not Homeland fans (I like both of those shows FWIW).
 

Lithose

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I think that's sort of the point. They came over believing that they were fighting the great Satan for the glory of mother Russia and 100% dedicated to the cause but that idea is really fucking hard to support once you're here no matter how much brainwashing you have had. At the same time you *need* to believe it if you are going to continue killing people and risking your life all of the time. Call me biased but the Americans were pretty objectively the good guys in the cold war even if they did do some bad shit along the way.
Yeah, I agree, that is the point they are making. I just think how "slow" it's going getting across to them? Makes the conflict feel a little disjointed. And yeah, I agree, in this struggle, on a "government level" The American government were what I would consider the good guys, just due to the domestic differences in how the U.S. handled opposition. I mean, the U.S. had it's own political witch hunts, and they ended with horrible black lists--but the Soviet ones ended with people in Gulags, or just dead, and we are talking millions. Not to mention the gulf between living conditions (As Elizabeth even said, her experience was extreme poverty in Russia). So on that level, it's hard to get your head around the propaganda and indoctrination needed to understand why Phillip and Elizabeth would even consider letting them have Paige before bailing.

But, at least if they showed, say, the suffering in South Africa, or some more on the South American death squads. Or some other nefarious stuff the U.S. did partake in? It might make the slow burn feel more conflicted. I don't know, I think it would be time better spent than on pastor Tim. heh. Granted, I know it's character driven so the family makes sense. I just think characters and the struggles from those areas would do more to make sense of "the cause" for Elizabeth and Phillip, why they still feel the need to fight for it. But even in when they do show people from there? They seem to just give more evidence to hate the Russians--pretty horrific thing watching your ally burn someone to death with a tire. And while *I* know the white South Africans did horrible stuff, too, I haven't seen it in the show, I've only be relayed a small blurb about how it's bad...just all goes back to the tell not show. What we've seen is the side the communists supporting being horrifically violent, while we were told the other side was with a bomb.

I think part of the problem is the fact that it's about spies makes people think they're going to see a show like Homeland but this show is mostly character driven and the spy stuff is more of a sidebar. Mad Men fans should be watching this show, not Homeland fans
This spot on. Show is based on the character interplay, and struggling to make choices, not as much on the thriller/action of the accomplishing the plan. Also, I do like this season the best too, despite my complaints about the disjointed internal conflict. The stuff about Afghanistan made it very poignant that the Soviets were desperate, added another drive to the show.
 

spronk

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next season should be interesting, we'll have the downing of the jet over korea by the soviets and then the able archer european exercise in 83, which the soviets really thought was a blitzkrieg style invasion buildup ala Nazi Germany. It'll probably be overdramatized for the show.
Able Archer 83 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I just wish Elizabeth and Philip were put into more conflicted situations, where both are forced to choose between their family or their country. They have skirted the line a few times but its gotten a bit silly in how many times they have gotten away with basically everything. Of course the show drastically changes if either is caught by an American intelligence operation, but I get the feeling the showrunners and writers are trying to stretch that obvious scenario out as long as they can. I think it should have happened early this season, it looks like its going to happen sometime in season 4 (probably finale).

and yeah totally agree that there is 0 build up on showing America doing bad things during this era. In 2 more show years they will be able to look at us selling arms to iran, supporting iraq (saddam) against iran, and arming drug gangs in nicaragua but by then the soviet union is more or less collapsing too.
 

Lanx

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I'd like a realistic season, an entire season where they didn't have to kill a guy. I mean if you look at it, they are the KGB superspies, the only family that even comes close got killed by their own kid. but do they have to kill every eps almost? Sometimes it feels they're just trying to make the kill of the week.

Also i'm tired of the Americans as the dumbest fucks in the room, I want them to give Stan an anti spy team and break down all these cells, i want to see fear in their eyes, instead of Stan just being the idiot lusting over Nina.

I want Stan to develop that relationship with Henry, I want Phil to get crazy over this, and I want Paige to steal some $$$, book 2 tickets to fucksville and get her and Henry out of there (she worked at the travel agency doing paperwork, she can probably do it).

I want Stan to be unleashed like Hank Breaking Bad style, but the fuck suck russians are boring as hell, fuck you oleg, you put me to sleep.
 

BrutulTM

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BTW, most of the "illegals" were not arrested until 2010 so them getting away with stuff is true to history. I have no idea how many operations the real spies actually pulled off but I suspect that you are correct that they were not nearly as active as they are portrayed in the show.
 

BrutulTM

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Yeah, I agree, that is the point they are making. I just think how "slow" it's going getting across to them? Makes the conflict feel a little disjointed.
I see what you're saying, but I guess it just rings true to me. If you're going to get into this job you're a true believer and true believers of all sorts are pretty good at ignoring evidence to the contrary of whatever it is that they believe in. It's only the idea of Paige getting into the business, her shocked reactions to what they do, and to a lesser extent the visit to Elizabeth's mother and Philip's friendship with Stan Beeman that is causing them to reconsider what they "know" to be true.
 

Xeldar

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Season 4 starts back up tomorrow. Really, this is the only must-see television for me.
 

chaos

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I am pretty hyped as well, but I will probably save it up and just burn through the season in a weekend sometime this summer. I am so spoiled by Netflix now.
 

BrutulTM

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I missed out on this show until I marathoned S1-3 last spring. Definitely excited for S4.
 

Alex

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I wonder if Martha will end up killing herself and that will send Phillip off the deep end.