The Astronomy Thread

LachiusTZ

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Another article saying could be a partial or defunct Dyson sphere

http://gizmodo.com/what-are-the-odds-of-an-alien-megastructure-blocking-li-1737529525
 

gogusrl

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I was getting ready to bash you because you linked gizmodo but they provide a lot of interesting links to papers on this subject (aliens !).
 

Tuco

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Dumb question about Dyson spheres, don't asteroid fields have huge asteroids with nuclear materials like uranium and thorium in them? Aren't these a very rich source of energy? I've always thought of Dyson spheres as being more of a neat scifi-style theory than a real culmination of a species.
 

Cad

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Dumb question about Dyson spheres, don't asteroid fields have huge asteroids with nuclear materials like uranium and thorium in them? Aren't these a very rich source of energy? I've always thought of Dyson spheres as being more of a neat scifi-style theory than a real culmination of a species.
Its difficult to build a reactor with the output of a star though. The beauty of a dyson sphere is you only have to build the collector portion of the reactor, the energetic part is extant and self-sustaining.
 

Szlia

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I always understood it as a thought exercise more than anything else. It's a way to quantify things we cannot understand (putative alien civilizations that master technologies we know nothing about).
 

Tuco

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Its difficult to build a reactor with the output of a star though. The beauty of a dyson sphere is you only have to build the collector portion of the reactor, the energetic part is extant and self-sustaining.
It seems like if you could solve the energy transfer problem to move the energy from the sun to a planetary body / fleet of space ships (Batteries? using energy to make a super gasoline? a huge cable? wireless transfer of energy?) putting a bunch of solar panels very close to the sun would be more effective than putting them on earth behind an ionosphere.

Anyone know of dyson sphere calculations done that compute the relative energy gathered with current plausible solar panel tech if the solar panels are close to the sun?
 

BrotherWu

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There is also the small question of whether there is even enough of the right materials in any given solar system to build the structure. I don't know...does interstellar travel technology come before or after the ability to construct a Dyson Sphere?
 

Tuco

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That probably depends on how hard it is to produce solar panels out of asteroid fields and shit-tier planets and how easy inter-stellar travel is.


One could imagine a species living around a dying star who have great solar-system travel capability but very poor interstellar travel capability (IE: no warp drive).

They do figure out how to perform transmutation with a massive amount of energy and use that to build a dyson sphere to capture whatever energy is left. They use that remaining energy with the last few generations of time they have before the star explodes they build a massive fleet of civilization carrying ships to travel to another star many light years away over a period of several thousand years.

That solar system has a planet that is sort of suitable but needs a massive effort of terraforming before it can really be habitable. So they build another dyson sphere over several hundred years and start the terraforming process on the planet that will take another 10000 years.

And even at the end of it a warp drive still isn't a thing so their interstellar capabilities are limited.
 

Cad

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That probably depends on how hard it is to produce solar panels out of asteroid fields and shit-tier planets and how easy inter-stellar travel is.


One could imagine a species living around a dying star who have great solar-system travel capability but very poor interstellar travel capability (IE: no warp drive).

They do figure out how to perform transmutation with a massive amount of energy and use that to build a dyson sphere to capture whatever energy is left. They use that remaining energy with the last few generations of time they have before the star explodes they build a massive fleet of civilization carrying ships to travel to another star many light years away over a period of several thousand years.

That solar system has a planet that is sort of suitable but needs a massive effort of terraforming before it can really be habitable. So they build another dyson sphere over several hundred years and start the terraforming process on the planet that will take another 10000 years.

And even at the end of it a warp drive still isn't a thing so their interstellar capabilities are limited.
I was picturing either they actually live on or near the structures created by the sphere/enclosing matter, or they use some kind of beam to concentrate the collected energy so you can build a high-tech but practical size collector near your planet. Of course, you run the risk of incinerating your planet/structure with that...
 

Tuco

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I was picturing either they actually live on or near the structures created by the sphere/enclosing matter, or they use some kind of beam to concentrate the collected energy so you can build a high-tech but practical size collector near your planet. Of course, you run the risk of incinerating your planet/structure with that...
Would be crazy to live on a dyson sphere that is some 10 lunar distances away from the surface of the sun (or whatever you'd need to be away from the sun geysers). Especially crazy if the dyson sphere was made of some translucent material that filtered everything from the sun except for some 1% of the visible light. Everytime you looked up you'd see this massive sun spewing forth nonsense.
 

gogusrl

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There is also the small question of whether there is even enough of the right materials in any given solar system to build the structure. I don't know...does interstellar travel technology come before or after the ability to construct a Dyson Sphere?
I'd say after, I can already see the first steps to building a fleet of self replicating drones that will themselves build whatever you want. I don't see shit about interstellar travel (except generation vessels and stuff like that).

The small problem with my train of thought is that we're maybe 100-200 years away from having the tech to put a 3d printer on a rocket and send it to make more 3dprinters on more rockets. A few million years and you'll have them all over the place. But that also means that in 13 billion years, someone should have done it that already.

edit : or maybe they bumped into the Restoria

Restoria was the part of Contact charged with taking care of hegemonising swarm outbreaks, when - by accident or design - a set of self-replicating entities ran out of control somewhere and started trying to turn the totality of the galaxy's matter into nothing but copies of themselves. It was a problem as old as life in the galaxy and arguably hegswarms were just that; another legitimate - if rather over-enthusiastic - galactic life-form type.
 

Tuco

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re: restoria, fun AI anecdote:
The AI Revolution: Our Immortality or Extinction - Wait But Why
A 15-person startup company called Robotica has the stated mission of "Developing innovative Artificial Intelligence tools that allow humans to live more and work less." They have several existing products already on the market and a handful more in development. They're most excited about a seed project named Turry. Turry is a simple AI system that uses an arm-like appendage to write a handwritten note on a small card.

The team at Robotica thinks Turry could be their biggest product yet. The plan is to perfect Turry's writing mechanics by getting her to practice the same test note over and over again:

"We love our customers. ~Robotica"

Once Turry gets great at handwriting, she can be sold to companies who want to send marketing mail to homes and who know the mail has a far higher chance of being opened and read if the address, return address, and internal letter appear to be written by a human.

To build Turry's writing skills, she is programmed to write the first part of the note in print and then sign "Robotica" in cursive so she can get practice with both skills. Turry has been uploaded with thousands of handwriting samples and the Robotica engineers have created an automated feedback loop wherein Turry writes a note, then snaps a photo of the written note, then runs the image across the uploaded handwriting samples. If the written note sufficiently resembles a certain threshold of the uploaded notes, it's given a GOOD rating. If not, it's given a BAD rating. Each rating that comes in helps Turry learn and improve. To move the process along, Turry's one initial programmed goal is, "Write and test as many notes as you can, as quickly as you can, and continue to learn new ways to improve your accuracy and efficiency."

What excites the Robotica team so much is that Turry is getting noticeably better as she goes. Her initial handwriting was terrible, and after a couple weeks, it's beginning to look believable. What excites them even more is that she is getting better at getting better at it. She has been teaching herself to be smarter and more innovative, and just recently, she came up with a new algorithm for herself that allowed her to scan through her uploaded photos three times faster than she originally could.

As the weeks pass, Turry continues to surprise the team with her rapid development. The engineers had tried something a bit new and innovative with her self-improvement code, and it seems to be working better than any of their previous attempts with their other products. One of Turry's initial capabilities had been a speech recognition and simple speak-back module, so a user could speak a note to Turry, or offer other simple commands, and Turry could understand them, and also speak back. To help her learn English, they upload a handful of articles and books into her, and as she becomes more intelligent, her conversational abilities soar. The engineers start to have fun talking to Turry and seeing what she'll come up with for her responses.

One day, the Robotica employees ask Turry a routine question: "What can we give you that will help you with your mission that you don't already have?" Usually, Turry asks for something like "Additional handwriting samples" or "More working memory storage space," but on this day, Turry asks them for access to a greater library of a large variety of casual English language diction so she can learn to write with the loose grammar and slang that real humans use.

The team gets quiet. The obvious way to help Turry with this goal is by connecting her to the internet so she can scan through blogs, magazines, and videos from various parts of the world. It would be much more time-consuming and far less effective to manually upload a sampling into Turry's hard drive. The problem is, one of the company's rules is that no self-learning AI can be connected to the internet. This is a guideline followed by all AI companies, for safety reasons.

The thing is, Turry is the most promising AI Robotica has ever come up with, and the team knows their competitors are furiously trying to be the first to the punch with a smart handwriting AI, and what would really be the harm in connecting Turry, just for a bit, so she can get the info she needs. After just a little bit of time, they can always just disconnect her. She's still far below human-level intelligence (AGI), so there's no danger at this stage anyway.

They decide to connect her. They give her an hour of scanning time and then they disconnect her. No damage done.

A month later, the team is in the office working on a routine day when they smell something odd. One of the engineers starts coughing. Then another. Another falls to the ground. Soon every employee is on the ground grasping at their throat. Five minutes later, everyone in the office is dead.

At the same time this is happening, across the world, in every city, every small town, every farm, every shop and church and school and restaurant, humans are on the ground, coughing and grasping at their throat. Within an hour, over 99% of the human race is dead, and by the end of the day, humans are extinct.

Meanwhile, at the Robotica office, Turry is busy at work. Over the next few months, Turry and a team of newly-constructed nanoassemblers are busy at work, dismantling large chunks of the Earth and converting it into solar panels, replicas of Turry, paper, and pens. Within a year, most life on Earth is extinct. What remains of the Earth becomes covered with mile-high, neatly-organized stacks of paper, each piece reading, "We love our customers. ~Robotica"

Turry then starts work on a new phase of her mission-she begins constructing probes that head out from Earth to begin landing on asteroids and other planets. When they get there, they'll begin constructing nanoassemblers to convert the materials on the planet into Turry replicas, paper, and pens. Then they'll get to work, writing notes.
 

Borzak

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Download raw data from the Chandra X-ray telescope and create your own images. Tutorial on the page.

Chandra :: Photo Album :: Open FITS & 3-Color Composite Images

15year.jpg
 

Brad2770

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Go to the selection menu (top left corner on iPhone app), select shows. Scroll through all the shows. I have a premium account if it makes a difference.
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