meStevo
I think your wife's a bigfoot gus.
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Did you point out to him that the Watch Dogs demo at the Sony presser was running on a PC with PS4-equivalent specs?
The Big Bad Console Thread - Sway your Station with an Xboner !
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Vorph
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It's on par with a lower-end modern gaming PC. The GPU is estimated on paper to be slightly more powerful than a Radeon 7850, but it's almost certainly based on a mobile design rather than desktop to keep the wattage and heat down, which means it will be slower than the specs might lead people to believe. FLOPS is far from being a definitive measure of performance anyway, especially for a GPU.
You could also argue that having a console OS makes up for most of that, but quite frankly I think they have bogged the machines down with so much extraneous shit at this point that there's going to be nearly as much overhead as running a full Windows OS.
Well, when it comes to PC tech, Haswell is out this year and next year is broadwell, so there should be some interesting mobile platforms coming out by the time we're seeing 10nm cpus by 2016. I'm sure gpus will be interesting too.
So do most of us; however MS, Sony and their investors all want to sell their boxes to non-gamers as well. Thus the positioning of the device as a multimedia, socially-connected, entertainment and app hub as well as a gaming machine. Especially in this shit economy, they want to broaden the market, increase profits, and reduce risk. I don't think we'll ever see gaming-only console again. But as long as gaming doesn't take a back-seat I'll be fine with it.
Or the part where the whole architecture of the system- lame marketing term notwithstanding- is a "supercharged pc".
It's no doubt marketing but it is also true developers can get more from a console than a PC of similar specs. It's a lot easier to maximize performance when you're only dealing with one or two different hardware configurations.
Vaclav
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Except for Durango/720. I'd expect to see quite a bit of OS bloat on Microsoft's new system. An OS based off Windows8 and a heavy emphasis on being a multitasking multimedia hub will require resources. Rumors are its always online with Kinect being mandatory and always running also. Sure, it'll still be more efficient than a general purpose Windows8 PC, however it will also be the most bloated of any console OS.
Nah, I'm not trolling, I'm getting older and it goes by so fucking fast.
PS4 should have everything but touchscreen or motion sensor on the controller, its so annoying when all these new gadgets are embedded with such features. I like it oldschool handfeel.
Not really sure why you'd think that. Windows 8 isn't bloated (it's the same damned kernal as 7 and actually benches a little faster than it). Regardless of the hate for the touch stuff, it's a very snappy OS. Also the X360 used a windows kernal as well and using one on a console is nothing new to Microsoft. The original Xbox probably used a windows kernal too, but I'm not really sure on that. Regardless of its base, the way consoles run their shit is a bit different anyways.
The PS4 has a ton of multi-tasking and OS work it has to do too with all the sharing stuff. It's also no less of a multimedia hub than the X720 will be. The X360/PS3 also do tons of multimedia hub stuff and aren't affected in games by it at all and a lot of it was added in years into the consoles lives.
The PS4 has a ton of multi-tasking and OS work it has to do too with all the sharing stuff. It's also no less of a multimedia hub than the X720 will be. The X360/PS3 also do tons of multimedia hub stuff and aren't affected in games by it at all and a lot of it was added in years into the consoles lives.
On top of what Sean just said, it really shouldn't be an issue. Reports are that Durango uses 1.5 of it's 8gb of RAM for OS and security functions, which while it sounds like a lot, I think I mentioned that on another forum, when the argument of 8 vs 16 gb of RAM came up, someone pointed out that playing Battlefield 3 on max settings in a 64 player game, they couldn't get it up past a bit over 3gb of RAM being used. As long as there's 4+ gb of RAM available for games OS footprint really shouldn't matter.
And really if not for both systems having 8gb of memory, Sony would be the one to worry about with it's OS footprint. The PS3 had less available memory for games than the 360 did due to the OS footprint, and the PS3 couldn't fit in some of the features the 360 had in that (cross game chat etc.)
Windows 8 has some nice improvements under the hood, including an updated scheduler that specifically takes advantage of AMD's new bulldozer/jaguar cores for example.
But Windows 8 is still a bloated OS, especially for a console, even if it will be heavily modified for Durango.
My response was actually to:
"And no OS bloat/multitasking." The argument being that you can get more out of a console than a PC of similar specs.
That consoles will be more efficient than PCs will remain true, but that they won't have bloat and multitasking is false.
The question we really don't have answered yet is just how much will these more complex (and resource intensive OS's) affect the performance disparity between consoles and PC's?
Well, its incorrect to say "none". As modern consoles become increasingly PC-like in both their hardware and software architectures being suited for generalized tasks, their performance gap to traditional PC's of similar specs will also diminish.
Additionally its a fallacy to suggest that 8Gb of RAM will always be more than enough or will never be fully utilized. Limited resources are always coveted by developers.
Sony and MS will go out of their way to minimize the footprint of their next-gen OS's, but they will still be more complex than any that have come before. Not sure if Sony has a patent on how they suspend, compress, and then expand Vita's OS, but its likely techniques like that will show up on the consoles as well.
But Windows 8 is still a bloated OS, especially for a console, even if it will be heavily modified for Durango.
My response was actually to:
"And no OS bloat/multitasking." The argument being that you can get more out of a console than a PC of similar specs.
That consoles will be more efficient than PCs will remain true, but that they won't have bloat and multitasking is false.
The question we really don't have answered yet is just how much will these more complex (and resource intensive OS's) affect the performance disparity between consoles and PC's?
Well, its incorrect to say "none". As modern consoles become increasingly PC-like in both their hardware and software architectures being suited for generalized tasks, their performance gap to traditional PC's of similar specs will also diminish.
Additionally its a fallacy to suggest that 8Gb of RAM will always be more than enough or will never be fully utilized. Limited resources are always coveted by developers.
Sony and MS will go out of their way to minimize the footprint of their next-gen OS's, but they will still be more complex than any that have come before. Not sure if Sony has a patent on how they suspend, compress, and then expand Vita's OS, but its likely techniques like that will show up on the consoles as well.
It's not like they'd just be taking Windows 8 and shoving it in a console dude... it won't be running "Windows 8." That's not how this shit works.
At most it'll be using something with the same kernel and be completely built from the ground up with hooks into other windows 8 devices for smart glass.
At most it'll be using something with the same kernel and be completely built from the ground up with hooks into other windows 8 devices for smart glass.
Your buddy is a retard and you should shoot him in the head then dump his corpse in a quicklimed pit for the good of humanity's gene pool. Or, if you're feeling generous, look up the spec of some current mid-range gaming PCs on Newegg (etc) and point out to him that they're basically identical to a PS4 except without the crippled laptop CPU and shitty hard disk in the console.
Vaclav
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Yes and no - I was answering a bit tersely - to be verbose - the big difference is that so much of the OS in each case can be turned off when necessary for performance. PC OS footprint has to stay relatively static at all times, they can adjust the footprint of a console OS much more freely. (Although not as much as back in the day, since they do multitask some now, but still not the "all avenues always ready" method like PC does)
Vaclav
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Has a console ever been regularly CPU bottlenecked before? Not that the AMD chip in question bottlenecks on anything I can recall throwing at it. (And mine is technically one down from the closest PC equivalent)
Not to mention price point is a huge deal which if you're referencing the chip I think, you're talking about about $100 difference in retail.... and with some people commenting $4-500 sounds too much, could you imagine if it was $5-600?
MrHolland420
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I am so looking forward to the PS4 and what Naughty Dog studios is going to do with the Uncharted series. My self I actually enjoyed the Resistance and Killzone games. Resistance 2's online co-op was fucking awesome.
There's not the slightest bit of surprise there - negotiation wise buying them from AMD is kind of like 'You can either go out of business, or bend over, lube up and cry tears of joy at whatever price we give you'.
Araxen
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Yeah, I understand why they picked AMD but Intel is just so superior nowadays(which I wish wasn't the case) it isn't even funny.