the ecological fallacy and identity politics

Mario Speedwagon

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mkopec said:
Well obviously the rich will have first acess if it's deemed moral, and then it will filter down to middle eventually, thus widening the supposed equality gap the blue hairs are striving to achieve.

Wasn't there a movie about this?
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This is likely. I think really the only the hope for @AngryGerbil's dream is that the USA manages to hold together long enough that gene editing, transhumanism, and other technological advances come through and obliterate my issues with race. But even if that happens, I'm not convinced that it will supplant racial conflicts.
 
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I think child a la carte will only brings kids that are identical to the parents, or have traits as close as they can.
Removing genetic desease is awesome, but I doubt anyone will order a children that does not look like the parents. That is part of the appeal, they look like the parents.
At least I, if given the option will not choose eye color or skin tone that I don't have.
 
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Leadsalad

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mkopec said:
Well obviously the rich will have first acess if it's deemed moral, and then it will filter down to middle eventually, thus widening the supposed equality gap the blue hairs are striving to achieve.

Wasn't there a movie about this?
Click to expand...
screen-shot-2012-10-26-at-7-50-55-am.png
 
sadris

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mkopec said:
Well obviously the rich will have first acess if it's deemed moral, and then it will filter down to middle eventually, thus widening the supposed equality gap the blue hairs are striving to achieve.

Wasn't there a movie about this?
Click to expand...
Will shitlibs admit that genes exist once blacks have to spend $20k on gene editing to bring them up to par with whites on the IQ curve?
 
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Sadre Spinegnawer

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maskedmelon said:
The best solution is qualified reproductive rights. .
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Not within realm of possibility, and for good reason. power corrupts, etc. There are few non-negotiables, and the right to reproduce is one of them, even if, I personally find it a costly right. But this is not my universe. And I cannot imagine not admitting this right as fundamental.

plus you become guilty of the ecological fallacy,. Careless reproduction leads to stupid offspring, therefore all careless offspring are stupid.

That is just flat out not true.

I would be open to some sort of incentive program to not breed, though. I really would rather not hit 10 billion by 2050.
 
BrutulTM

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This thread took longer than expected to jump the shark.
 
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Sadre Spinegnawer

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Some people need to take naps.

Campbell1oo4 said:
Which is bullshit when you're dealing with people from different cultures who have been brought together by a shared nationality. You can have all the equality of opportunity in the world, but if you have two people - both from different cultures, one that values hard work and discipline and another enjoys a good nap - that opportunity won't matter. The guy from the first culture will prosper while the second has a nice long nap.
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fify.

Why do we all need to march to beat of the same drummer? These are times of great plenty. I work b/c I would go crazy if I didn;t have a productive outlet for my energy. But other people like naps.

Is that so wrong?
 
mkopec

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Sadre Spinegnawer said:
Some people need to take naps.



fify.

Why do we all need to march to beat of the same drummer? These are times of great plenty. I work b/c I would go crazy if I didn;t have a productive outlet for my energy. But other people like naps.

Is that so wrong?
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notation2.gif
 
Vepil

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Sadre Spinegnawer said:
Some people need to take naps.



fify.

Why do we all need to march to beat of the same drummer? These are times of great plenty. I work b/c I would go crazy if I didn;t have a productive outlet for my energy. But other people like naps.

Is that so wrong?
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Yes it is, because in the end the one working ends up paying for the lazy SoB sleeping.
 
maskedmelon

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Sadre Spinegnawer said:
Not within realm of possibility, and for good reason. power corrupts, etc. There are few non-negotiables, and the right to reproduce is one of them, even if, I personally find it a costly right. But this is not my universe. And I cannot imagine not admitting this right as fundamental.
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China has imposed restrictions on reproductive rights. The US even has a history of selective restrictions on reproductive rights, so regulation is not beyond the realm of possibility ^^

Corruption - while a valid concern and profound obstacle with regard to implementation - has nothing to do with the validity of the argument. We can discuss implementation if we agree that it is more wrong to introduce uncounted numbers of children into poverty than it is to deny one person (who may not even want children) the right to produce them.

plus you become guilty of the ecological fallacy,. Careless reproduction leads to stupid offspring, therefore all careless offspring are stupid.
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No, there are fundamental differences between unlikely and impossible, most or many and all. Failure to understand those differences is what leads to the ecological fallacy. That was the point of my initial post and my suggestion that if you introduce people to the concept, they are likely to uniformly reject generalization whether the argument is valid or not as you have done here.^^

My argument is something more along the lines of:

Suffering ought be minimized. Poverty promotes suffering. Children born into poverty are likely to suffer, therefore children ought not be born into poverty.



That is just flat out not true.
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You may be right, but that was not my argument. It was your understanding of it :3

I would be open to some sort of incentive program to not breed, though. I really would rather not hit 10 billion by 2050.
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There are a lot of things you could do and it needn't originate as something awful at all. You have to remember though that many unplanned pregnancies are also unwanted. A simple place to start would be compensation for voluntary surrender of reproductive rights. It could be tiered
 
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Titan_Atlas

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I had an idea the other day. Make everyone responsible for their own food. Create a program that trains from childhood Aquaponics. At the age of 18 you received your first greenhouse and equipment set. You receive larger systems based on members of household. People with disabilities or the elderly can use a credit system to purchase food. Outlaw selling of food by moving to a cashless systems. Create a land giveaway program with 0 interest loans for rural minimum square foot homes in areas with good growing conditions. Let those unwilling to put in the work to feed themselves die. Create a society that is personally responsible for feeding themselves for survival while as a nation giving them the exact tools needed free of charge to do so.
 
BrutulTM

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So you want to go back to a 100% agrarian society? The fact that people don't have to grow their own food is what enabled modern society. Cheap and plentiful food provided by a tiny percentage of the population is what allows the rest of the world to build skyscrapers and invent the internet and shit. Individual greenhouses for each family would be stunningly inefficient.
 
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Titan_Atlas

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Those things will still exist, just because you had a vehicle take you somewhere doesn't mean that's the only vehicle for your next trip.
 
Titan_Atlas

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Aquaponics systems are incredibly efficient 2 hours a day or so. Move work start times back an hour. Solved.
 
BrutulTM

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I'm not going into it, but let me just say you don't know WTF you're talking about. The downside to how few people are involved in farming these days is that city dwellers are stunningly ignorant about agriculture.
 
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mkopec

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Yeah fuck that, I dont want to be spending my summer days (roughly 90 of them) farming my back yard, hoarding food, canning shit and drying food for our long ass MI winter. No thanks. Besides, do I have to keep chickens now? A few cows? some pigs? since Im not a fucking vegan?

Do you even have a garden, bro? I have a rather OK one, about 10'x10' where I usually grow some tomato, peppers, zucchini, maybe some cucumber. I would literally have to turn my entire back yard, and buy the neighbors back yard in order to fed myself and my family, lol. I had 3 huge toamto plants that I collected all the fruit from, boiled that shit down, strained it and made one pot of chili and one pot of spaghetti for a total of about 6-7 dinners.

Hey how bout that grain mill, I guess I will have to build one of those since I like my bread and sandwiches.

Hmm, I wonder how many acres of wheat I would have to plant to supply my family with bread all year long. Let me tell you its alot more than my backyard can handle, lol.
 
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Mario Speedwagon

Mario Speedwagon

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mkopec said:
Yeah fuck that, I dont want to be spending my summer days (roughly 90 of them) farming my back yard, hoarding food, canning shit and drying food for our long ass MI winter. No thanks. Besides, do I have to keep chickens now? A few cows? some pigs? since Im not a fucking vegan?

Do you even have a garden, bro? I have a rather OK one, about 10'x10' where I usually grow some tomato, peppers, zucchini, maybe some cucumber. I would literally have to turn my entire back yard, and buy the neighbors back yard in order to fed myself and my family, lol. I had 3 huge toamto plants that I collected all the fruit from, boiled that shit down, strained it and made one pot of chili and one pot of spaghetti for a total of about 6-7 dinners.

Hey how bout that grain mill, I guess I will have to build one of those since I like my bread and sandwiches.

Hmm, I wonder how many acres of wheat I would have to plant to supply my family with bread all year long. Let me tell you its alot more than my backyard can handle, lol.
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This is why we can't exist without Mexican slave labor. White people just won't do the work!
 
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