the ecological fallacy and identity politics

maskedmelon

maskedmelon

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The citizen farmer proposition is also strikingly analogous to the issue of individual responsibility and reluctance/inability of many to rise to it.




Not really though.


On the other hand it is a superbly unnecessary reallocation of resources to less efficient investments. +1 for practical application in the genius of central planning. there is hope yet :3


On a related note, I have been super surprised the ease and minimal space requirements to maintain a continuous supply of nutritious leafy greens througout the SUMMER ^^
 
AladainAF

AladainAF

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Lendarios said:
At least I, if given the option will not choose eye color or skin tone that I don't have.
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Wouldn't it be fascinating to see, if EVERYONE could choose a boutique baby like this, how many minorities would have their children white?

Given how easy whites have it, and how much privilege we have, why on earth would anyone make anything but a blond hair, blue eyed baby?
 
AladainAF

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Titan_Atlas said:
I had an idea the other day. Make everyone responsible for their own food. Create a program that trains from childhood Aquaponics. At the age of 18 you received your first greenhouse and equipment set.
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In a 10'x3' area in my backyard we grow a ton of spices and veggies that last us almost a whole year. You don't even need a greenhouse and not much equipment other than good soil, maybe some fertilizer to get it going (maybe), and a hose with some water.
 
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BrutulTM

BrutulTM

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Don't kid yourself. I would bet money that you don't even get 1% of your annual calories from that garden. Gardening is a fine hobby, but don't confuse it with feeding yourself.
 
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Pancreas

Pancreas

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Growing your own food has benefits for sure. The vegetables are better for you and taste better. There is resource savings in that the food was not transported and refrigerated until you consumed it. And their is a resilience to a diffused production system in the case of disaster.

That said it's a big time investment and requires a lot of knowledge to get a good yield and avoid all the potential hazards that can wipe out your crop.

Modern homesteading is a thing and it is not easy.

And as for the guy forcing everyone to grow their own food. Guess what, months before this goes into effect, there is already a time share, currency exchange market for people looking to hire others to grow their food for them.

You basically took the existing market and cluster fucked it with government overreach.

Which means you must be an elected official of some kind.

Just kidding, that's an awful thing to call someone. But yeah, what you are proposing is the antithesis to civilization.
 
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AladainAF

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BrutulTM said:
Don't kid yourself. I would bet money that you don't even get 1% of your annual calories from that garden. Gardening is a fine hobby, but don't confuse it with feeding yourself.
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If I had to, I can certainly get 100% of my calories from my garden, albeit it might need to be a little bit bigger.
 
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BrutulTM

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For a few days maybe. If you're claiming that you can eat nothing but what you grow year round then I need to see pictures of this miracle plot.
 
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BrutulTM

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For example, the highest calories/acre crop that I know of is potatoes. A phenomenal crop of potatoes would produce 60,000 lbs per acre. That is with ideal soil and weather conditions and excellent farming, probably including fertilizer and pesticide. An acre is 43560 square feet. You are farming 30 square feet which is roughly 0.0007 acres so on a good year you could expect to produce 42 lbs of potatoes or about 135, 5 oz potatoes, and 5 oz is a pretty small potato. A 5 oz potato is about 105 calories so you are producing 14,175 calories. At a modest 1400 calories per day one person could live for 10 days on your all potato diet.

Even if you live in a climate where you could get more than one crop per year, it's not even remotely feasible to grow your own food in a space like this. This is an ideal situation but in reality you are probably producing a fraction of that in your garden. If you are growing greens and herbs that is almost zero calories even if it's a lot of volume. I'm sorry to shit on this yuppie subsistence farming fantasy but it's not even close to realistic.
 
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Sentagur

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AladainAF said:
If I had to, I can certainly get 100% of my calories from my garden, albeit it might need to be a little bit bigger.
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To live off of a 10x3' area for a year you would need to grow magic beans.
I grew up with a decent size backyard which included area for veggies and an orchard, we also raised 20-30 chickens and 3-4 pigs every year and we didnt even have close to enough food to be self sustained.
 
Palum

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Sentagur said:
To live off of a 10x3' area for a year you would need to grow magic beans.
I grew up with a decent size backyard which included area for veggies and an orchard, we also raised 20-30 chickens and 3-4 pigs every year and we didnt even have close to enough food to be self sustained.
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Bro just because a single household family had like 5-10 acre farms to sustain themselves in the 1800s...
 
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zzeris

zzeris

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Palum said:
Bro just because a single household family had like 5-10 acre farms to sustain themselves in the 1800s...
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Inefficient fucks. They could have used that extra acreage for manicured lawns if they had known better.
 
yerm

yerm

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This whole farming subdiscussion is really just a reimagining of UBI. We want everyone to have the potential for success, but we also want to require individual responsibility to achieve it. Those who choose to squander are to blame, not the government, who should never be directly responsible for the actual administering of personal wellbeing.

To make any system work we must be willing to embrace the idea of allowing failure to fail. The idea that all people must succeed is as dangerous as the idea that all opinions must be right. One stifles society, the other stifles thought, but for whatever reason few want to challenge the first like the second.
 
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yerm

yerm

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Leadsalad said:
What makes ubi different from welfare?
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Mostly choice and equality. Welfare puts the choice and responsibility on the government while UBI requires individual respinsibility. It's welfare without the oversight, and without disincentives for earning.

The "bad" part vs welfare is it allows people to make poor choices and suffer, which horrifies the fuckers who think NOBODY should starve, not even those who spent their food money on cigs and soda.

(I'm good with doing neither)
 
Furry

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BrutulTM said:
For a few days maybe. If you're claiming that you can eat nothing but what you grow year round then I need to see pictures of this miracle plot.
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I could feed my neighborhood with my yard. I'm sure we'd get tired of eating squirrels and pecans after a while, but the calories are there for people who know where to look.
 
Lendarios

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AladainAF said:
Wouldn't it be fascinating to see, if EVERYONE could choose a boutique baby like this, how many minorities would have their children white?
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Probably only the self hating individuals. Why would you want to raise a kid that looks very little like you?
 
AngryGerbil

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Sadre Spinegnawer said:
Thanks for the thoughtful reply AG. You see my point. It's just a general observation about a logical fallacy, or fallacy of reasoning. And isn't it the truth, you can find it everywhere?

What puzzles me, is why people seem to *enjoy* it. Is it, as you say, because it is indeed a useful tool to simplify the complex world? An EZ low-res, low-bandwidth trick? That would explain it.

My rather cynical mind, though, thinks there are more nefarious reasons. There seems to always be a whiff of malice afoot when people insist on reducing individuals to their group traits. Is that just me?
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I decided to re-read this for some reason and saw that I never replied.

It isn't just you.

Hanlon's razor - Wikipedia

It's a known phenomenon. We monkeys, for some evolutionary reason, tend to want to attribute malice to mistake.

That being said, I do agree that there is at least a whiff of malice. I think there may be a handful of malicious actors involved in ID Politics or 'The Ecological Fallacy'. However, I think most players in the ID Game are simply confused or ignorant.

Those are not incurable conditions.
 
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