The new cool thing to say is because a game has X feature even if its small its a WoW clone. Say what you want about VG but besides EQ I enjoyed leveling in that game more than any other. You did not have to do any of those quests as there were TONS of places with all the different starting zones and nooks and crannies where you could just go kill shit. I would love if more games did a VG type game world that was fully filled out. Not only does it give ya different flavors in what your killing its good for alt lovers. VG style world with all those areas with GW2 style deleveling would rock because VG had so many areas you couldnt do them all because you just leveled to fast.
The Elder Scrolls Online
- Thread starter Anomander Rake
- Start date
Just because the game had quests and hubs doesn't mean its a straight up WoW clone.
I can remember pharming Vanguard dungeons for loot and xp far more than I remember doing hub to hub questing. So if a handful of faggots decided to solo play the game and run from hub to hub sure you could do that. Doesn't mean it was the best way to do it or what most did when the game actually mattered. I remember coming out of Patheon I think it was with red weapons that were pretty fucking uber for the level range and pharming the shit out of that place for alts, loot and everything. You weren't running WoW dungeons more than a couple of times I remember spending days in some of the vanguard dungeons.
Vanguard had a decent amount of group content and unlike other games of the era actually encouraged grouping. There isn't going to be another game that doesn't at least allow people to level from start to finish solo doing quests. Its the new way but don't mistake that for THE ONLY way or THE BEST way because in Vanguard that wasn't the case at launch. Grouping > solo which is pretty much the exact opposite of WoW even at release. (with the exception of a couple of elite quest hubs)
Vanguard was hardly a WoW clone. Vanguards problem was they over reached with trying to make 3 separate but equal games (the game, crafting and diplomacy) and had absolutely terrible money / time management. Shitty engine performance.
If they had shit canned diplomacy and some of the more open ended ideas like boats and left that for an expansion and put that time into the engine and the regular game things would have been very different.
Vanguard like Warhammer was actually pretty close to being done right. Just a few major major fuck ups kept it down. Kind of like shadowbane and some other great gems that get shit on because of the issues but had some of the best actual ideas that get buried by the the other shit.
I can remember pharming Vanguard dungeons for loot and xp far more than I remember doing hub to hub questing. So if a handful of faggots decided to solo play the game and run from hub to hub sure you could do that. Doesn't mean it was the best way to do it or what most did when the game actually mattered. I remember coming out of Patheon I think it was with red weapons that were pretty fucking uber for the level range and pharming the shit out of that place for alts, loot and everything. You weren't running WoW dungeons more than a couple of times I remember spending days in some of the vanguard dungeons.
Vanguard had a decent amount of group content and unlike other games of the era actually encouraged grouping. There isn't going to be another game that doesn't at least allow people to level from start to finish solo doing quests. Its the new way but don't mistake that for THE ONLY way or THE BEST way because in Vanguard that wasn't the case at launch. Grouping > solo which is pretty much the exact opposite of WoW even at release. (with the exception of a couple of elite quest hubs)
Vanguard was hardly a WoW clone. Vanguards problem was they over reached with trying to make 3 separate but equal games (the game, crafting and diplomacy) and had absolutely terrible money / time management. Shitty engine performance.
If they had shit canned diplomacy and some of the more open ended ideas like boats and left that for an expansion and put that time into the engine and the regular game things would have been very different.
Vanguard like Warhammer was actually pretty close to being done right. Just a few major major fuck ups kept it down. Kind of like shadowbane and some other great gems that get shit on because of the issues but had some of the best actual ideas that get buried by the the other shit.
i actually liked the diplomacy system. soe's biggest mistake was releasing the game during wow's peak. how many people were they hoping to attract when wow had the attention of millions of players?
Swagdaddy
There is a war going on over control of your mind
- 1,960
- 1,870
I didn't call the game a WoW clone, I said it started to feel like one to me personally by level 10 so I quit. So stop putting words in my mouth, and no need to swear I didn't know you owned Vanguard stock or something.
In reference to EQ2 like most I have never played that game, so the "WoW quest system clone" is an easy reference for almost everyone to understand. You could say the questing in a game is like EQ2 and a huge amount of people (Including myself) would have no idea what you are referencing.
I'm entitled to my opinion, sorry it made you hulk rage out.
Ukerric
Bearded Ape
- 8,502
- 10,722
I think the first MMO that was mostly quest-driven for (most of) its levelling was DAOC.
Swagdaddy
There is a war going on over control of your mind
- 1,960
- 1,870
To all the people saying everyone groups and no one does the quests, it's hard to get that impression early on because everyone is solo chain running quests while boxing disciples and not socializing at all.
That contributed alot to the WoW feel for me I think.
Think we should get a mod to move all this Vanguard rage shit to that thread lol.
That contributed alot to the WoW feel for me I think.
Think we should get a mod to move all this Vanguard rage shit to that thread lol.
Azrayne
Irenicus did nothing wrong
- 2,161
- 787
Not really. They added a bunch of quests later on to make it more like WoW, but pre-WoW it was 100% grind, EQ style.
There is not going to be a game that will come out that will not have the first 10 levels be a hand holding session and just throw you to the wolves. For every person that says "blah it feels like WoW with x collect quest" there are probably 30 that will say "WTF where are the quests and what do I do!!" I have no issue with the first 10 levels being that way as it gives the player a chance to get in some sort of flow and learn the basics or his character. I personally do not need this but far more will and I am cool with that as long its the first 10ish or so levels and then opens up and takes it off the rails.
EQ actually put in a little tutorial area if its still in game that was kinda cool where ya had to escape from a little jail and learn the basics and then you went out into the world. Would have no issue if more games just did that.
EQ actually put in a little tutorial area if its still in game that was kinda cool where ya had to escape from a little jail and learn the basics and then you went out into the world. Would have no issue if more games just did that.
how safe and controlled does an mmo need to be? if you really believe that most people need that kind of guidance then the genre is fucking doomed.
Yeah, because making a genre more widely accessible to all is a sure-fire route to oblivion while making it esoteric and obscure is a guaranteed success.
Do you evenreadwhat you're typing?
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 8,792
- 664
are you going to keep using the same tired arguments when it's been shown time and again that the kind of mmos you endorse have no long-term appeal? you have no idea why people really play mmos nor do you understand what kept you hooked on everquest like it was heroin. you're absolutely clueless.
Which was painful
I said the first 10ish levels not the whole game. Huge difference. While most of us here do not need it or do not want it we are a very small minority. I by no means want the whole game to be that way but as I said I can deal with the first few levels being that way if thats what people need to get them going and gives them a basic understanding.
Have you played every MMO since EQ? there are some dumb motherfuckers playing games these days and there is no getting rid of them so if a 5-10 starter level tutorial out of 50-60 total levels makes them less shit them put it in. It is not as if those first levels take days to get through in the first place. I would love for a game not to have to do that but we have to be realistic.
Which is why EQ1 has ten million subscribers and WoW has somewhere less than 1% of that amount, right? No, wait, cross that out and reverse it.
Hint: You areobjectivelywrong and also arguing your position from asubjectivebasis (i.e. you are claiming your opinion as fact while reality continues dick-slapping you in the face and teabagging you when you fall down).
are you really that fucking stupid and dense? he's not talking about WoW, he's talking about all the WoW clones that have come out after WoW. how's SWTOR doing? how about warhammer? rift? GW2? just because WoW has millions of subs doesn't mean every subsequent game that comes out should be made just like it. if that formula worked, then all the games that have copied WoW would be successes, and not shining examples of what NOT to do.
