Is that ass-talk again? EQ1 zones were gated by levels no different than TESO, WoW, Rift and pretty much every other MMO out there.
The Elder Scrolls Online
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Abefroman
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I gave you two specific examples with combat lag and weapon swapping that you dismissed as stuns and oh well just quit. These more then anything are what I am talking about. If you like subjective shit like how they made the game then I'm happy you got the game you want. Performance of combat is not subjective when it can actually be measured and shown as fucking up. That is why it is impossible to have a discussion with you about the game. A simple "I hope they fix it soon but I still like the game" and nobody would have said anything. Instead you act like it's a personal attack to even bring it up.
I don't want to see anyone leave this message board, it just seems you would be a hell of a lot happier on TF or the official boards where it's all rainbows and unicorns. Are we too negative here? Maybe. That doesn't make the points we bring up any less valid.
Vitality
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Utnayan
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They didn't. They had an open world pseudo-sandbox game. Each zone was still "Fairly" level locked. You weren't going to be exploring Lower Guk at level 15. What EQ did to make it more sandbox-y was place various level mobs all over a zone in certain areas and game play became emergent by accident. It won't ever be repeated. As it was blind luck, never designed that way, and was a fluke of it's own horrible systems that ended up making the world dangerous and fun by mistake. With that said, it wasn't nearly as bad as TESO and other theme parks. Because the level range for most zones and even dungeons accommodated players within usually 20 levels of each other in different areas. For example, Unrest zone in trash mobs around level 15-17 if I recall, where if you were in the altar or ghost rooms you would want to have a group of 35's. But this also built community. You saw the same names on a static server. You actually got to know people. That was the fun part.
Other level ranges when you look at somewhere like Oasis. Level 14-15 crocs, all the way to taking out Specs at 35. It was this way in dungeons as well, but was more limited. Although you could feasibly stay in Lower Guk from 35 to 50 from zone in, skele, ass, frenzy, magi and lord.
With that said I also disagree with Rescorla in that an open world sandbox MMORPG couldn't be done. This specific team had over 7 years and reportedly $200 million. If you cannot do it with that, it's time to find a new team, considering Skyrim had a budget of $85 and there are modders turning it into an open world multiplayer sandbox game with their free time.
I highly doubt ZO will be around long enough to start on a new project. Everything I have heard points to Battlecry and Rich Vogel for Fallout Online. Lucas Davis is the design lead - so at least we will be able to see if he can foster a team environment like he always says. As long as Rich Vogel stays the hell out of it, there may be a shot with Davis as the Lead.
Fallout Online: Shadows of Boston. A weird ring to it
I agree with most of your point, but TESO is ten times the game EQ is even now post 50 SOE expansions later. The issue is it's not 1999 anymore, and EQ today is a meh game nobody really wants to play, even free.
Theme park games are fine and there still is a market as the next WOW expansion will be one and still sell like hotcakes. My issue is I've done so many hours of them there isn't much shine left.
EQ was first out of the gate and was brilliant for the time. It's still amusing. TESO likewise is fine, if they can fix the myriad of glitches, bugs, and dupes. As far as community, it's vastly overrated. It was then, and it remains so. It's all about playing with a few friends.
Once again, you totally missed the boat on what I actually wrote.
Back when weapon swap lag was being discussed a couple weeks back, I pointed out a possible explanation. What YOU perceive to be weapon swap lag MIGHT actually be a case of the mob you are fighting stunning you but you don't know it because the games UI does nothing to inform you that you were stunned. Since you seem to keep putting words in my mouth or misconstruing what I write, that isn't dismissing the problem. It's called a possible explanation. I know its possible because 1) I have been stunned by a mob before and had it happen to me and 2) there was a topic of discussion on the PTS forums about it (people complaining about UI not showing what debuffs were on you).
When I posted the above information, it was given to provide helpful information. Personally I think its fucking ridiculous when people twist that into me being a shill, always defending the game, etc.
Utnayan
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Oh for sure. Don't get me wrong. Anything today is better than a game made over 15 years ago.
Remember though that the new Warcraft Expansion isn't building on previous "Here are your ten zones, 5-10 levels, and dungeons and what not"... There is going to be a real sandbox/new game play element to the expansion with garrisons.
You left out the main part of the entire point. Creating an open world sandbox MMO is not the challenge. Creating that MMO with PVE content that dynamically autoscaled to your current level like TES games did is the challenge.
Abefroman
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Vitality
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Don't forget his mouth is full of other peoples words all the time too.
God I'm an asshole today.
Utnayan
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Thing is with the current phasing system in place it wouldn't have been that difficult to tie in the dynamic portion of leveling to one's own phase and then layer on each level based instance, and flag the character on each level ghain to throw them into the next instance (obviously with higher difficulty)
People are already playing a separated game as it stands now anyway. Completely possible had they gone that route. But it takes more than a non linear progression system to make a sandbox MMORPG. You would need to add player housing, player vendors, true exploration, complete open world bosses, large open world dungeons and no instanced dungeons. Coupled with an AvAvA system that allows true leveling as the vanilla world. Give $200 million to a team created by Matt Higby, $500 says he can get it launched within 5 years. And that's probably with the same SWG style crafting system included.
Here? Not possible you are correct. 1) It would be mismanaged as this game was. 2) The engine would have to be produced from the ground up. 3) They cannot even get quests and combat abilities to work correctly, not to mention guild banks, personal banks, email, etc all of which are crashing out games/server/causing major issues. So with this team you are correct, it would have never been possible.
Oh well. I'm done trying to reason with you. In the future, don't pretend you actually want to have a discussion about the game.
Vitality
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How is any of that true when UO did the same thing before EQ? Granted, UO didn't have character levels, but if you knew how to play the game you could take a several hour old character anywhere on the map - even traverse Hythloth if you had a friend who could gate you there.
Abefroman
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My understanding is Garrisons are limited guild buildings in a few Draenor zones. The rest of the game is the same static quest and raid stuff. Outside of guild housing which isn't exactly groundbreaking, the game will be the same design as it ever was. It's still 10 more levels, X more dungeons, Y more raids, and a ton of quests and fresh loot, though. There's not going to be any innovation, just seeing what other games have done and making it better in the Blizz fashion. Zzzzz.
My guess is there will be a host of Rescorla like fanboys since it is Blizzard, but the game for most of us will get old fast. Probably not as fast as TESO, but it won't be good for more than 2-3 months for me.
My next hope for a killer sandbox experience is Star Citizen. I'm curious to see how the Dogfighting module plays out.
I guess that depends if the people over there misunderstand your writings again. Or if they give that game harsh criticism and earned kudos while they construe you as only giving gratuitous lap-dogging praise at the same time with nary a bad word to spare when warranted.
I know one less person you'll have to worry about, me. I have absolutely no interest in posting about that schizophrenic-looking game whatsoever. I might give it spin as a F2P title for giggles but I certainly won't be posting my impressions on it unless I see something fantastic.
I'm tired of commenting on new, ordinary mmos that bring nothing new to the table. I'll tack my boat in the direction of the coming SOE product line.
Is this your farewell to the thread then? If so I'm right there with you hoping EQNext is worth playing. See you in that thread once the game gets more meat to it.
Utnayan
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