The Elder Scrolls Online

Kirun

Kirun

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Quaid_sl said:
Ya. Cuz quality of product is the only determinant of its success. Wow.
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Nah! Instead, quality is determined by you Luddites that want archaic game design and to see the genre stagnate, like it has for the last 8-10 years.

Do you still play EQ and Vanguard? "I hop on an EMU server or EQMac every now and then!" doesn't count.
 
Sabbat

Sabbat

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mkopec_sl said:
Brad might not of been a good manager, but lets not discount his ability to make shit fun inside of a game.
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All Brad did was push a DIKU MUD inside a Quake interface. Mad props for doing it, but he sure as shit didn't make "fun" in EQ.
 
mkopec

mkopec

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Vanguard was not archaic for its time though. Was it really? Because it had non instanced dungeons and a huge world? It was a huge leap forward from EQ.

Let me ask you this, what do you want out of a mmorpg?
 
Quaid

Quaid

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I played Vanguard up until February. Their absurd cash shop kinda killed it for me. Loot better quality than raid gear started dropping out of RNG lockboxes. I can't support a product that takes advantage of people's instincts to gamble like that, while simultaneously disrespecting the amount of time loyal customers have invested in the game.

It was a personal ethics decision. Not one based on gameplay. Vanguard classes are the most well thought out and fun to play classes in any MMO I've played.
 
Kirun

Kirun

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mkopec_sl said:
Let me ask you this, what do you want out of a mmorpg?
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I want some of the mechanics of EQ(rare loot attached to rare spawns, twinking, longer travel times so that the world feels like a "world" and not a bunch of "sections", non-randomized loot), but with combat "speed" and "interactivity" somewhere between EQ and WoW, and with all the quality of life features the genre has come out with since. Instancing for important things(keys, progress, etc.), LFG, money not weighing you down, etc.

In-game lore doesn't matter that much. I just end up on wikipedia reading it all every month or so anyhow. Half of the time, the writers aren't nearly as intelligent as they think they are. I wouldn't mind having an overall "quest narrative", sort of like what FFXIV is doing, but the constant "task" system that games are offereing lately, is no different than sitting my ass in a dungeon and waiting for respawns. It's just disguised as "busy work". All it serves to do is keep me interacting with the game, rather than chatting and being "social".

Classes bringing unique things to the table again would be nice, I'm tired of all the homogenization of late. "Bring the player, not the class!". Fuck that! Does it alienate people at times? Of course it does, but as long as every class hassomethingunique to bring to the table in a group situation, it tends to work out just fine.

Honestly, I don't want a drastic departure from what we're used to. A lot of my ideas or things I'd like to seearesomewhat archaic. I'm just tired of EQ, Vanguard, etc. being held up as some sort of Golden Child. They both spawned some neat ideas and gameplay features that I'd like to see added, repeated, or expanded upon, but they aren't all-encompassing, and theycertainlyaren't without a massive amount of flaws.
 
Utnayan

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mkopec

mkopec

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I actually dont care. Didnt follow the 38 bullshit all that much since I never really liked shilling.
 
A

an accordion_sl

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Kirun_sl said:
"HE HASN'T PREDICTED SHIT!!! THIS GENRE IS 99% SHIT ANYBODY COULD PREDICT IT! LOLOLOL! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!".

Except the time when he predicted that Vanguard would be garbage, while everybody else was humping Brad's nuts about the second coming of EQ. Or the time that he predicted that Copernicus would be shit, while everybody else was climbing on Curt's nuts, because; "He's a gamer! He gets us!!!". Yeah, everybody and their mother was predicting the failure of those two pieces of overhyped trash...
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The majority of the MMO playerbase had no interest or faith in Vanguard because WoW was on the horizon. Just based on Curt's posts here (the "discussions" he would start up), anyone with a brain could tell it was a WoW clone. Reckoning pretty much assured those beliefs.



I want to hear secret insider info about about EQN or whatever unannounced MMO's the big companies are working on. It's not hard to predict a game will flop after seeing graphics/gameplay.
 
Mr Creed

Mr Creed

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mkopec_sl said:
Vanguard was not shit it was just unfinished with a crappy homebuilt engine. But the game itself was pretty sound. True sucessor to eq.

We never got to see Copernicus so how can you say its shit? It got mismanaged same like VG.
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Vanguard as a released game was shit *because* it was unfinished and a crappy homebuilt engine, and probably some other reasons. The ideas and concepts it represented I can get behind, but what came out of it was crap, unfortunate as it may be. (not saying nobody played or plays it, I know I played my share of games the majority considers crap/boring/outdated/whatever).
 
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Tidbit Scaledclaw_sl

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mkopec_sl said:
Vanguard was not archaic for its time though. Was it really? Because it had non instanced dungeons and a huge world? It was a huge leap forward from EQ.

Let me ask you this, what do you want out of a mmorpg?
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Beyond the shitty coded engine and even with it if they would have had to proper time to finish, and not used those UNI Body models it really could and would be very different game then its current state.
 
iannis

iannis

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Ut went full on insane with his secret notes and his back channel infoz when it came to vanguard. And then he shamed every last fucking one of us when he turned out to be right. You've got to respect that shit.

I don't know if I've ever heard Ut say that a game was going to be good though. Have you ever given a thumbs up to a game pre-release, Ut? I'm seriously asking. I'm not trolling at all. I know you kinda liked DAOC.

Ut is like this boards resident Yatzee. He just calls everything dogshit and goes insane at how awful it is... and he's generally right. Or at least not very far wrong.
 
Woolygimp

Woolygimp

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Not hard to predict failure in a genre that touts laughable bad design philosophies such as dungeon finders, cross server instancing, cash shops, and so forth as the path forward.
 
Grim1

Grim1

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Tidbit Scaledclaw_sl said:
Beyond the shitty coded engine and even with it if they would have had to proper time to finish, and not used those UNI Body models it really could and would be very different game then its current state.
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The original character models in Vanguard were very good. Unibody isn't ideal but even with it VG's character art was some of the my favorite in any mmo.

It was SoE that fucked that up by coming in and replacing it with more "heroic" character art that was very poorly done. SoE up until recently, screwed up a ton of character art in most of their mmos. DCuO and PS2 were the first games where they got a clue and actually hired top tier artists.
 
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JordanJax_sl

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qwerty_sl said:
I too am a secret insider, involved with all gaming companies in the world, and I am best friends with everyone who makes games, personally. Do not ask me for proof as it is very sensitive, but I can now reveal, that this game will feature mudcrabs. Kneel before me and my seriouz insider knowledge. Take me seriously and respect me, for I know things. Things that matter. I am an important and influential man.
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Fuya_sl

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I think Ut gave The Secret World a thumbs up... or at least some time after release. It is the only game I've seen him talk favorable for.
 
Utnayan

Utnayan

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Grim1_sl said:
It was SoE that fucked that up by coming in and replacing it with more "heroic" character art that was very poorly done. SoE up until recently, screwed up a ton of character art in most of their mmos. DCuO and PS2 were the first games where they got a clue and actually hired top tier artists.
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This is because they were (still do) use Vanguard as a training ground for live game experience. It isn't a supported game anymore obviously, and quite frankly, never was. It was a training ground for onboarding employees. Sort of like a farm team for the major leagues.

I think Ut gave The Secret World a thumbs up... or at least some time after release. It is the only game I've seen him talk favorable for.
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I've talked favorably about a lot of games. Just not that many in the MMORPG genre. The Secret World was one of those where I was wrong after finally getting to some of the good content. For me though that is highly subjective. I love haunted/atmospheric places with careful attention paid to detail - and going through the Franklin house, the haunted amusement park, and the lighthouse was a dream come true. That was some of the best stuff I have played through in an MMORPG, although it could have been fantastic single player story content as well. But there is a specific reason why. Attention to detail and not cutting corners on art/animation assets.

Franklin house content had it's time era change and with it as you moved through the history of the house. Big but here, they changed the art assets surrounding the house and even OUTSIDE the house when you looked out the window. For example in summer, it was summer. IN the winter time frame, it was actually winter. 80% of the companies out there would not have done that, and it made the Franklin house story line 1000% more enjoyable as a result.

The more companies that do this the better. But no one is. It's lowest common denominator business. Re-use as much as possible, forsaking the immersive detail and atmosphere for "massive content" milestones.

Then Bioshock infinite comes and Ken Levine throws a giant F-U to anyone that says you need a multiplayer component of a game to sell well. Now * That * was an awesome game. Too bad more people don't take notes from his playbook.
 
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Gecko_sl

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Some of these threads are way too fucking much about Ut, and not enough about games. Would the mods give him his own fucking forum so he can piss on TESO, EQN, and talk about who is banging whom and why Jacobs is the anti christ there solely?
 
Utnayan

Utnayan

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Gecko_sl said:
Some of these threads are way too fucking much about Ut, and not enough about games. Would the mods give him his own fucking forum so he can piss on TESO, EQN, and talk about who is banging whom and why Jacobs is the anti christ there solely?
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Or you and others could quit making it about me when all I am doing is posting information or talking about the game/subject until some dumbass makes it about me and how I either hate all games, hate them, had devs kill my family, am not Miss Cleo, why people think I am/not, and all the other bullshit.

Jesus listen to yourself.
 
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Tidbit Scaledclaw_sl

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Woolygimp_sl said:
Not hard to predict failure in a genre that touts laughable bad design philosophies such as dungeon finders, cross server instancing, cash shops, and so forth as the path forward.
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Its not just that, its the fact that the MMO biz recycles devs at higher rate then even any junk yards.

Basically any dev can continue to make shitty MMO after MMO then they get fired the MMO tanks, then some the same retards hire them back with new MMO company and a lot of times even gives them a fucking Promotion.

1 last thing this not only happens again and again with the MMO biz, but this very same shit is happeing with the Movie Biz as well.


Cheers.
 
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