The Elder Scrolls Online

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Kedwyn

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My biggest complaint about this game is the combat and how floaty, buggy and shitty it is. If it doesn't bother you then there is something in PVP for you to see. If that is your thing.

Personally i can't get passed the combat to give a shit about the PVP (I'm a huge PVP fan). The maps and objectives look solid but people are going to bitch about the distances and zergs. Hopping instances regardless of cost seems sketchy to me and reminiscent of GW2 that people will move to battles they have a chance at winning.

If you can get over that then the PVP might grab you for a bit.

If you're not into PVP then I'd just pass unless you are super casual and not a big ES fan.
 
Pyksel

Pyksel

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Muligan_sl said:
What are the advantages to owning the keep and what keeps ESO from the same fate as WAR to where you just flip flop keeps? I hated the fate of WAR. You just let the Keep go and take the other while they walked through the doors of your previously held keep. You never defended, just kept moving. It got old really fast since one side of entire game was meaningless.
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I absolutely hated PvDoor in WAR and also worry that it could end up being prevalent in TESO from what I've seen but I will tell you that the keep guards can be quite tough, you will need friends. I know that doesn't prevent it but you won't see small groups running around flipping them. What they might flip, is resource camps.
 
Pyksel

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Kedwyn_sl said:
My biggest complaint about this game is the combat and how floaty, buggy and shitty it is. If it doesn't bother you then there is something in PVP for you to see. If that is your thing.

Personally i can't get passed the combat to give a shit about the PVP. The maps and objectives look solid but people are going to bitch about the distances. Hopping instances regardless of cost seems sketchy to me and reminiscent of GW2 that people will move to battles they have a chance at winning.

If you can get over that then the PVP might grab you for a bit.

I'll be really frank and just say the PVE isn't the games strong point.
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Kedwyn is spot on. The PvE is atrocious save a couple things that will be mentioned later once the rest of the NDA drops on it but the combat really needs some loving that's for sure. The cost to hop instances is outrageous and there's a time limit associated with it but I also agree that it's a concern and wish they would just lock that shit down.
 
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Droigan

Trakanon Raider
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pyksel_sl said:
Kedwyn is spot on. The PvE is atrocious save a couple things that will be mentioned later once the rest of the NDA drops on it but the combat really needs some loving that's for sure. The cost to hop instances is outrageous and there's a time limit associated with it but I also agree that it's a concern and wish they would just lock that shit down.
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PvE being the weak point in an Elder Scrolls mmo.

Dafuq
 
Pyksel

Pyksel

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Droigan_sl said:
PvE being the weak point in an Elder Scrolls mmo.

Dafuq
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Exactly! Come for the AvA but if you want that PvE experience you're better off with a modded Skyrim or something else entirely. There are quite a few people that enjoy the PvE of it but I couldn't stand it. Sure there were some minor fun things about it but damn does it get old fast especially when you have to fight with quest bugs, floaty combat, and other issues.
 
Utnayan

Utnayan

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Kedwyn_sl said:
My biggest complaint about this game is the combat and how floaty, buggy and shitty it is.

Personally i can't get passed the combat to give a shit about the PVP (I'm a huge PVP fan).
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combat really needs some loving that's for sure.
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Utnayan's post -OCTOBER 2013

I took this to inherently mean the combat system. Which sucks so much blow hole right now (And most likely will never be able to be fixed at this point) that one would have to be outright full of shit or have their quality standards so low that SWTOR was the only other MMORPG they played when gauging combat responsiveness. Which would make sense since both will suffer the same combat problems as they are both native to hero engine. No matter how many other systems have been broken up on top.
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The Elder Scrolls Online - Page 178

Blackwulf October 2013

Interesting interpretation, guys. Sounds like a good plan to me,but we'll have to see who is right as we actually get to see it in action.
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I guess I was lying about combat in October of 2013 as well when I was still in the closed beta.
 
mkopec

mkopec

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So tell us some shit that only an insider would know pertaining to PvP now that you have no fear of losing your precious beta account, lol.
 
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Zantox_sl

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Tuco, this is 100% not a troll question but an experiential question:

With the rise of MOBAs (DotA, LoL, etc) and other PVP oriented games (I'd put Planetside 2 here), have you guys seen attrition in the MMO PVP ranks? Somewhat like, "Hey, I love me some MMO, but the PVP in DotA is just better at scratching that itch -- let's PVE/Raid on this MMO then go PVP over there". My DotA group has a few WoW players that are like that, and we all went to GW2 for about a month before deciding the PVE wasn't entertaining enough and the PVP was not as good as DotA.

I'm not necessarily asking about PRX only (since premier groups always have recruiting advantages), but rather the general populace when you guys go out there and fight it out.
 
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Rescorla_sl

shitlord
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Droigan_sl said:
So there are lots of telegraphs later on? Not seen many of them in the early videos. That alone will completely break any viability of first person.

I think it is safe to say at this point, that while it very well might turn into an enjoyable mmo, it is not Elder Scrolls.
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Whenever there is red stuff on the ground, you get a warning to Dodge. This warning is configurable in the settings to display Never, Sometimes or Always. I imagine if you set it to Always, you will know when to Dodge to get out of the red even if you can't see it in 1st person. I always play in 3rd person myself so it's easy to see when you need to move, which is quite often because pretty much every type of mob in the game has some kind of special attack that puts red stuff on the ground.
 
Utnayan

Utnayan

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/\ Holy shit can I have a minute to type?
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The PvP system was designed by Brian Wheeler. Considering he had all his assets taken from him until about 6 months ago, he has done an incredible job with what little time he has had.

The thing is though there is no reason to pay to play the same version of this you can get in GW2, just looking differently from the PvE Questing stand point and different maps. The PvP in TESO is less convoluted from a strategic perspective because everything is easier to read from a map perspective. There was an early complaint of playing follow the dots (Capturing keeps grants you the right to spawn there - obviously, once you spawn there, you go to the next keep. And that will always be a big cumbersome part of this section of the game. To get passed that they allow people to make their own spawn points behind enemy lines. Which in theory, should break it up a a bit. The problem is, it won't take long to see a scattered resource map with complete chaos of following the zerg around. From Brian Wheeler's perspective, it would throw the campaign into chaos. Imagine (If you are a World War historian) Battle of the bulge played out 16 times in the month of December all at the same time. Pockets of chaos, no front, etc. So that can happen, albeit, in game the zerg will put down those captured spawn points. It could make things interesting though. because guilds like PRX will not be able to control the line spawns when a group of folks are way out of reach on such a large map they are able to ninja the keeps. A zerg could feasibly spawn out of that, and it creates a whole new strategy to the war. That part I like.

The problem here is it doesn't matter.

1) The combat system is fucking broken. In Both PvE and PvP.
2) The megaserver technology is falling all over itself.
3) The skill sets and classes are bland
4) The XP balanced gains is fucking terrible.
5) Itemization at this point may as well not even exist.

They are so fucking far behind because of the stop/starts. If they had ANY... I mean ANY thoughts of fixing this before launch, they would push it until the fall of 2014, clean up the combat system, fix itemization, pass all the PvE content to make it even remotely fun, and at this point, make static servers and get rid of the fucking megaserver tech that fell flat on it's ass and will destroy the launch.

Man, Mkopec, remember when we would log into FF14 with Kreugen's key macro? Imagine no fix, and 5,000% worse than that, lasting for 3-4 weeks and the only fix will be people giving up so the population drops to handle the players. By that time, it won't matter. The population will be absolutely destroyed and with nothing fixed from the combat perspective, no one is going to play RvR anyway.
 
D

Draegan_sl

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Anyone could of typed up that if they had access to Reddit, Rerolled, SA or any other message board on the internet. We all know the internet is an exclusive club not many people have access too.

You essentially repeated everything Pyksel and a few others have already iterated upon.
 
mkopec

mkopec

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Im just busting your balls man.
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Im still getting this though because, yeah, Im a filthy whore with nothing to play right now.
 
Utnayan

Utnayan

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Draegan_sl said:
Anyone could of typed up that if they had access to Reddit, Rerolled, SA or any other message board on the internet. We all know the internet is an exclusive club not many people have access too.

You essentially repeated everything Pyksel and a few others have already iterated upon.
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It's the same fucking shit I had said about RvR 5 months ago before anyone knew about it. Should I start quoting all my previous posts?

Here is a post I got into it with Blackwulf back in October again.

It is a tug of war match which goes on for a few weeks. However, in those few weeks you can switch to whatever fucking instance of RvR you want to! Losing? Just switch to Cyrodil (34). Battle too lopsided? Switch to Cyrodil (23). Want to play with some friends stuck on another server? Switch to Cyrodil (22). Got stuck fighting against goons? Wait that won't happen they are too smart to purchase this game. But how would you know? Of that's right... NONE OF IT IS BEING TESTED. And Brian Wheeler is being starved for assets so Paul Sage can pass over the 1-10 area for the 50th time due to complete incompetence.

Persistent instances. Now I have fucking heard it all.

And yes BW, it is EXACTLY like consolized PvP, just on a longer scale (2 weeks instead of a match) but still, zero impact on the server, the world, absolutely no reason to fight the war other than leveling your PvP inherent talent traits, which are balanced out to make sure newbies can still fight the veterans - which makes those fucking useless as well. At least RvR in DAOC gave inherent rewards for the ENTIRE SERVER - Which inherently, * WAS * the sole world, which had persistence because it was static.
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Now, there has been a few changes obviously in 5 months. One is Emperor. The other is they have made a single trait line for that emperor should anyone achieve that.

The Elder Scrolls Online - Page 180

Here is another one. Which you all thought I was full of shit on when I posted it back in October. From one of the developers. Still working at ZO. October 2013.

There will be multiple instances of Cyrodiil. We are going to work with a campaign system where the same players play in an instance of Cyrodiil until certain marks are met by one faction. Dailies are here for a lot of the PvE players. Unfortunately, this is one of our only end game components for PvE. Other than that you are correct, all we have are heroic dungeon runs. Adventure zones won't make launch.

You can change between campaigns for an ingame PvP currency fee (internal testing), we are also weighing the option of allowing someone to join someone on their friends list for a day without a fee, but they will be sent back to their own instance of Cyrodill after playing. Either way, this doesn't do much for either player other than they can be together in the same instance for a time. And really, there is no reason to even play this content other than a dick-wave. Nothing that happens in Cyrodil will have any impact on the player's home PvE base. Completely separate worlds, and it makes the entire experience feel fake. We have brought this up many times, but without any budgeting going to our area, we have no choice but to shoe-horn in what we can to ship this thing out in April.

With that said, you can have multiple campaigns running at the same time so you will be able to hop between them all. This is the only end game content that will be in the game. Most assets are tied up polishing 1-20, as we are so far behind. And we all know where those assets are going and why we are behind to begin with. Where is Rich Lamberts promotion when you need it? Paul Sage is incompetent. And it is holding back assets from the rest of the game. We are having major issues with animation/UI control/links and responsiveness, ability tail off and bloat with trait design... As of right now this is probably the worst project I have ever been on in my ** years in the industry.
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The Elder Scrolls Online - Page 180
 
Utnayan

Utnayan

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Here is one last one for you Draeg, before you go tell me to take a break as proving you wrong is becoming a part time job for me.

Mounts in ESOL - Ut Note: There were no mounts in GW2 at all. So fairly irrelevant.

- One rvr map all three factions play on lasting months as opposed to four separate rvr maps in gw2 lasting a week. Ut Note: True. Unfortunately with campaign jumping this won't matter.

- Multiple scrolls / relics / Orbs or bones or clams or whatever you call them that have to be captured then escorted, skipped, jumped, or hand held across the map in order to capture / receive their bonus. Ut Note: Nothing more than collecting resources from various camps to build out keep defenses in GW2. New coat of paint. Nothing different.

- Alliances- In game tools to create guild alliances Ut note: Irrelevant and useless feature in an instanced environment with Campaign/Server jumping

- No spiking- No more I killed you but I have to spike / stomp you to finish you Ut note Not enough to distinguish combat mechanics. Just a way to quickly revive a player. TESO has a way to revive players in RvR as well.

- No names above players heads- No giant red names seen a mile away Ut Note: This is a player option on either game

- Giant city / Raid dungeon in the middle of the map Ut Note: There are no raid dungeons. Think of this (If they get it populated and itemized) as why you would want to win Wintergrasp. They have no other ideas and are pressed for time.

- PVP earned Emperor title that comes with enhanced abilities Ut Note: No one will care when it will have zero impact on the world outside of Cyrodill. Hey look, my title. It means.... absolutely.... nothing... because as far as the game is concerned, the entire war outside of the PvE game doesn't exist aside from some quest text.

- Summon camp - Being able to dig deep into enemy lands setting up player summoning camps Ut Note: They added a measure which hampered GW2 with lots of running. The entire point of RvR is to now capture keeps because it helps your alliance spawns. The fact that they think this is why people will play, because it works in Battlefield 4, is depressing beyond words and makes me question the IQ of the entire state of Maryland.

- Every wall and gate on a keep is destructible Ut note: Most walls and keep gates in GW2 were destructible as well. With that said, this doesn't matter from a game play perspective because sooner or later the zerg will focus in on one segment.In the end it will be too cumbersome for players to overcome from a defense perspective, and very easily exploitable. Makes for a great marketing vibe though to sell that box.

- Keeps do not repair on capture for the faction claiming it. Walls stay down etc on capture.Ut Note: This means RvR will be stagnant at one keep and will stall advancement. Why they can also say "MONTHS!" (Adjusted down to weeks because it will be unsustainable when everyone quits within 3 weeks) this "feature" should be destroyed if they know what is good for them. Bearing down on RvR and setting victory conditions, this doesn't mix. Either way, GW2's system was better in this regard.
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Rescorla_sl

shitlord
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Draegan_sl said:
Anyone could of typed up that if they had access to Reddit, Rerolled, SA or any other message board on the internet. We all know the internet is an exclusive club not many people have access too.

You essentially repeated everything Pyksel and a few others have already iterated upon.
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I wish Utnayan would post those same complaints on the closed beta forums so we can get some discussion with the devs going on. With the exception of some known issues the devs say they are working on, no one else seems to be having all the significant problems he is having.
 
Utnayan

Utnayan

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Rescorla_sl said:
I wish Utnayan would post those same complaints on the closed beta forums so we can get some discussion with the devs going on. With the exception of some known issues the devs say they are working on, no one else seems to be having all the significant problems he is having.
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Of course they don't. They are too busy of being in awe of speaking to a developer.

This is why closed beta is useless.

There are threads. There are just more, way more, politically correct than mine. I read some of the feedback and think that I am in some sort of developer meeting where everyone is so concerned about upsetting someone else higher up than they are so they won't advance that it paralyzes the entire fucking process. You know what happens then? Paul Sage keeps his job and this game launches in the state it is launching in.
 
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Rescorla_sl

shitlord
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pyksel_sl said:
Kedwyn is spot on. The PvE is atrocious save a couple things that will be mentioned later once the rest of the NDA drops on it but the combat really needs some loving that's for sure.
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Pyksel

Are you referring to the PVE content inside Cyrodil or the PVE content in the PVE zones?
 
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