The Elder Scrolls Online

pyksel_sl said:

It is by no means flawless as you're eluding to as even the most recent PTS will tell you that sometimes there are sync issues with pressing that button, your weapon connecting, and the mob responding. Sometimes you'll continue swinging with no reactionary from the mob and then it just dies. Now it has definitely gotten better but this has been a problem since March of 2013.

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Resort to strawmans much? Where did I even mention the word flawless? I even mentioned I had intermittent problems sometimes when fighting 3 linked mobs. I also clearly mentioned Zenimax admitted it was a known problem since they specifically said they improved it in those two patches.

The point is that the game is indeed responsive when you press a button EXCEPT for when whatever causes the combat lag kicks in. Whether it is typical internet lag, a design flaw, a software defect, etc I have no idea but Zenimax is obviously aware of the issue.

Rescorla_sl said:

The point is that the game is indeed responsive when you press a button EXCEPT for when whatever causes the combat lag kicks in.

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This made me laugh. The combat is fine except for all those times when its not.

Parallel45_sl said:

This is so true. You would think by now this would be a given for all modern MMOs that they must have responsive combat and the rock solid net code to support it.

This is the same thing that ultimately killed games like war, ffxiv, and swtor for me. The constant dropped inputs and positional lag just got too annoying after a while.

Eso already feels less responsive than all of those games. It's like the devs spent all their time on higher level game systems and completely forget about the basics.

I'll give the beta another try this weekend to check if collision detection helps, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

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Collision detection is on the PTS build, not the build the weekend beta testers will have.

Cinge_sl said:

This made me laugh. The combat is fine except for all those times when its not.

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Yea so if it's responsive 95% of the time and combat lag 5% of the time, you have to decide if that is a game breaker or not.

Rescorla_sl said:

Collision detection is on the PTS build, not the build the weekend beta testers will have.

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Well fuck. Thanks for the heads up. So are there any improvements over the last weekend event?

Cinge_sl said:

It's still quest driven game with hubs, just fewer amountof total quest. And like all quest based games not all quest are given at a hub, some are found while out and about doing other quest that you won't see until you actually run into them. A POI is just a different ! but visible from farther away..

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No, it's not. You aren't led from quest hub to quest hub. I only made it to 15, but I didn't see a single quest hub. Most of my quests were individual POIs, or NPCs running up to me, or visiting guild halls.

There also is a lot to explore and find. Yeah, it's still themeparkish, but not nearly on rails like Wildstar.

Rescorla_sl said:

Resort to strawmans much? Where did I even mention the word flawless? I even mentioned I had intermittent problems sometimes when fighting 3 linked mobs. I also clearly mentioned Zenimax admitted it was a known problem since they specifically said they improved it in those two patches.

The point is that the game is indeed responsive when you press a button EXCEPT for when whatever causes the combat lag kicks in. Whether it is typical internet lag, a design flaw, a software defect, etc I have no idea but Zenimax is obviously aware of the issue.

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Rescorla_sl said:

When I push a button, something happens. If that isn't responsive, I don't know what is.

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There is no strawman argument here but since you want to dance around wordsmithing that's fine. I never said you said it was flawless, I said you were eluding to it. You yourself even mentioned you have problems and it has nothing to do with linked mobs nor is it lag. It's a flaw that's been in the game since March as I stated earlier.

The game is getting better in the category of "responsive" but claiming that it is responsive as an absolute while casually tacking on your caveats is a pretty weak argument Rescorla. Zenimax being aware of the issue is irrelevant unless they have a fix planned and communicated said fix, would you agree? This has been around since March of 2013 and I think we can also agree that if it were on the priority list of things to complete before launch it would have been done by now. Yes, it's improved as I've admitted but it is not quite there yet and I certainly don't have confidence that it will be completely gone by release.

Rescorla_sl said:

The point is that the game is indeed responsive when you press a button EXCEPT for when whatever causes the combat lag kicks in. Whether it is typical internet lag, a design flaw, a software defect, etc I have no idea but Zenimax is obviously aware of the issue.

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I think you're attempting to defend what you perceive as an opposing point, when in fact you agree with everyone you're trying to prove wrong, as shown in the quote above.

I'm all for entertainment in argument, but this is an infinite loop, all-be-it semantic.

Are you certain you've only experienced this when interacting with multiple AI's? I've experienced this with the drawstring effect of the bow, large delays then rapid fires.

Smooch,
Vitality

Decent talk about some PVE stuff since most vids here are PVP-related.

Vitality_sl said:

I think you're attempting to defend what you perceive as an opposing point, when in fact you agree with everyone you're trying to prove wrong, as shown in the quote above.

I'm all for entertainment in argument, but this is an infinite loop, all-be-it semantic.

Are you certain you've only experienced this when interacting with multiple AI's? I've experienced this with the drawstring effect of the bow, large delays then rapid fires.

Smooch,
Vitality

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Well said Vitality.

Gecko_sl said:

No, it's not. You aren't led from quest hub to quest hub. I only made it to 15, but I didn't see a single quest hub. Most of my quests were individual POIs, or NPCs running up to me, or visiting guild halls.

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Not sure what you played, but from my experience there were hubs. I would move from start point(small village) , do the quests from there and the ones you find while out, then it moved to another little village/town/Objective that had more quest and rinse repeat(and they were tied together by breadcrumbs). The main difference is instead of sometimes having 10-20 quest in my log to do, I usually had a max of 5. It's exactly like almost every quest based game there is, just less of them(though maybe that changes later where you need more quest to progress per level). The on rails I dunno, but it seems pretty much like most quest games(level by questing where the game tells you to go(with the optional quest scattered around), level by pvp,just go grind mobs and dungeons).

This game is good, except when it's not.

Gecko_sl said:

No, it's not. You aren't led from quest hub to quest hub. I only made it to 15, but I didn't see a single quest hub. Most of my quests were individual POIs, or NPCs running up to me, or visiting guild halls.

There also is a lot to explore and find. Yeah, it's still themeparkish, but not nearly on rails like Wildstar.

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Quest hubs are essentially your points of interest in the game. It's semantics and it's silly to even argue it. Your primary method of gaining exp is going to be via questing, ie: visiting those points of interest. Yes, there are definitely NPC's out of the way that will run up to you and give you quests and there are certainly "some" quests that are not marked by POI's on the map but you won't level up exclusively off of them.

It's certainly not on rails but as Rhinohelix put it, it is definitely not as free-form as Skyrim either.

I would have liked to have seen them put more emphasis on the ancillary things to explore such as dark anchors, treasure maps, remote camps, etc. Remove those poi's from the map until you've gone in the area and completed them. It would go quite a ways in the exploration category of the game.

Gecko_sl said:

No, it's not. You aren't led from quest hub to quest hub.

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Actually... you are. Just because it's a different way, doesn't mean it's not the same tried and true model. To quote Mr. Plinkett, "You may not have noticed it, but your brain did."

At a micro level, TESO provides the illusion of exploration by hiding what most people would consider quest hubs in POIs and only provides direction though a few breadcrumbs and highlights on your compass. They also sprinkle in various side quest based on you walking downs a certain path here and there, creating that OH-EM-GEE I'M EXPORING!

The problem is though, at a macro level, you're locked into your leveling path like a felon on death row. It's so irritating to hear people claim this game embodies exploring when it really limits it in a variety of ways. What to go explore outside the current zone? Fuck you. Want to move outside your level range? Fuck you. Want to go experience another faction's area for variety? Fuck you. From this perspective, the original EverQuest and WoW had more "exploration" options and Guild Wars 2 damn near perfected it.

If I end up buying this and most likely will because I'm a sucker for new MMOs except when they are horrendous(FFXIV), I think the main story arc(which is actually pretty decent) and the Faction vs Faction stuff is the only thing that will keep me compelled to even log in and the latter relies heavily on if I can find a good guild to do it with and it doesn't turn into "Someone stomps for the first 2 weeks so the other 2 factions just quit for the next 10 weeks".

mkopec_sl said:

I never felt that wow had any reason to explore at all, I dont know what you are taking about. If you didnt have a quest to take you there, there was absolutely no reason to go there. Yah they had a few zones to do in the level range you were at, but at the same time it was an empty feeling because everything was so normalized. for instance ebvery mob in a zone had the same damn global loot table.

In this game at least they sprinkle some named's here and there that drop some gear and you can actually farm them for a while too. I ran into several of those off the beaten path. SWTOR had some elites too. (although they nerfed the shit out what they dropped when they went F2P). TESO have the social dungeons too, to explore...

Never played GW2 so cant comment there.

Not saying its anything groundbreaking here and for the most part its still a boring quest grind though.

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Explain the social dungeon part? Because if you are talking about what I think you are, not sure you can even call them dungeons. I did one and it was literally 4 rooms with a hallway connecting one after another and that was it. The others I found were just the same. There was no "exploring", it was a straight path through.