The Elder Scrolls Online

I like the PvE. There I said it. I like farming blue items off of world mobs. It looks like there is AOE grouping at high level which is always fun. I played a bunch of interesting stories in the low levels. There was at least one open dungeon I ran into that was too hard to solo. Grouping in party dungeons is fast and dangerous boss fights exist for equal level groups. The leveling is not super fast but it's also not grindy slow (at least not up to 20 where I got). The character building is decent.

Not sure what people here expect from their PvE these days.

Dmitry_sl said:

I like the PvE. There I said it. I like farming blue items off of world mobs. It looks like there is AOE grouping at high level which is always fun. I played a bunch of interesting stories in the low levels. There was at least one open dungeon I ran into that was too hard to solo. Grouping in party dungeons is fast and dangerous boss fights exist for equal level groups. The leveling is not super fast but it's also not grindy slow (at least not up to 20 where I got). The character building is decent.

Not sure what people here expect from their PvE these days.

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The PvE in ESO isn't bad compared to other mmos. It just doesn't live up to the Elder Scrolls name. It is a light version on everything. Which is why I have said that I wish they had made this game into "generic name" Online. Not Elder Scrolls online. Fans of Elder Scrolls will be the ones who will be disappointed the most, especially if they pre-ordered on name alone.

That said, I don't mind the game, and will play it (not pre-order though).

But my definition of good PvE would be good lore driven content (solo play), similar to the missions in The Secret World, or content that requires group interaction and cooperation (the point of mmos in my opinion).

I highly dislike hard coded stat resists (like it was in WoW where a mob 5 levels above you would resist everything you did, so no matter if you tried kiting or anything, it was impossible to kill), dislike handheld quest hubs and extremely linear level based progression.

I too was positively surprised by dungeons I had no chance of soloing at my appropriate level. Probably reflected my crap build, but as a human mage in EQ who put every extra stat point into str and cha, I enjoy the ability to mess up

Btw, anyone who tried this recent beta with the updates, is the targeting still wonky or is that fixed now?

Dmitry_sl said:

Not sure what people here expect from their PvE these days.

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Working quests for time/effort spent. That would be a good start.

One of the biggest things people say they hate is Fetch 10 bearass quests (to borrow someone's term which I like) that make you do it, turn it in, then run back to get another to go back to the same place only to rinse/repeat. Why? It's a waste of bloody time. The problem is that it punishes you for the time you put in vs the reward (exp in most cases). The absolute worst is getting those hubs ones, and then finding out the second quest that sends you back is FUBARed. If this continues to happen, then you wonder why you're even paying for a sub anyways.

Well, TESO has all these people claiming they don't have that for their PvE."We got 'long quests' so it's better instead of a million tiny ones".The only thing worse than one or three bearasses that don't work is one LONG quest chain that doesn't work because at no point in that quest do you get any reward for time spent on it. This was the problem I found in the TESO beta. You spent 15-45 minutes on something and then can't finish the thing. I would have rather just had the hub ones and been able to move on. The biggest problem for me (despite what Vitality says) is not being able to find out what happens when I find a particular quest interesting because at Stage 4 of a six stage quest, the NPC went shopping at the mall instead.

I like my PvE in games and find a lot of the quests entertaining, and helping me to care about the game more. I guess that concept is outdated with today's gamers who want to skip whole zones to PvP, or spacebar everything but a lot of PvEers still like to find out what's going on with the game. Otherwise, there's no reason to call it "Elder Scrolls Online" or whatever; just call it "Themepark Faceshooting MMO" and put everyone in Cyrodil and let them work their way backwards from that.

I don't know if it's just plain bugs as some have said (which they can fix.. two weeks before launch?), or if it is indeed the megaserver tech (which they may not be able to fix?) or what, but it's extremely annoying to have your time wasted like that. I'm not angry that happened because it's a beta and didn't cost me a cent. But it's enough to make me not want to risk $60 on for sure. Your last beta you're supposed to put your best foot forward. If that was Zenimax's best foot, the other one must be a fucking club so I'm gonna pass. Not paying $15/month to PvP because as I said; I can do that in GW2 right now for free.. and I haven't played GW2 since Xmas.

And all these people telling me 'it gets better as the game goes on'? That just sounds like an episode of Oz where the vet inmates tell the new guy "Yeah, it hurts in the ass the first few times but hey.. it gets better later on.. trust me, just stick with it"

Jackdaddio_sl said:

And all these people telling me 'it gets better as the game goes on'? That just sounds like an episode of Oz where the vet inmates tell the new guy "Yeah, it hurts in the ass the first few times but hey.. it gets better later on.. trust me, just stick with it"

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We are really comparing PvE in a MMO to getting ass-raped in prison now? Really?

You guys need a new hobby. You are taking this shit way too seriously.

As to your very first point, I agree. Theyneedto get these quests fixed. Whether its a problem with the megaserver, a problem with each individual quest or something else entirely, this needs to be fixed. I still enjoyed the game with the broken quests but it was frustrating.

I liked having fewer quests with slightly longer quest lines than the WoW approach of the typical quest hub. Probably because I have done that style so damn many times before. The novelty will wear off and I am fine with that. By the time it does, I will be level cap anyway and not doing many quests except for dungeon, adventure zone and the PvP ones. Again, this is if they get the quests working.

I said in my first post, I don't have to have anythingrevolutionaryas long as I have fun. I don't see anything revolutionary in Elder Scrolls Online. The closest to it is the class system, which is pretty cool but not something I would call revolutionary. Hell, my favorite part of the game is the PvP and that is about as old school as it gets. I am fine with that.

esloan_sl said:

We are really comparing PvE in a MMO to getting ass-raped in prison now? Really?

You guys need a new hobby. You are taking this shit way too seriously.

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Yes, I'm totally comparing ass rape to videogaming. Yes Lana. Because:

1) the internet is serious business and

2) let's call 2.. shut up.

Got to throw my Archer in there. Love me some of that.

I'm assuming you can respec as many times as you want (not taking into account the cost). So I'm looking for a class that can cover multiple roles (on top of the flexibility introduced by weapon skills), so I can respec when I want some change.
So far, it seems Templar can assume Tank/Healer/DPS roles decently for either solo, groupe PvE and PvP contents. Am I mistaken there ? And could there be a more versatile class (I was looking at Nightblade too) ?

Droigan_sl said:

The PvE in ESO isn't bad compared to other mmos.

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Its some of the worst ever.

We've already been over it. And to really talk about it. I would need to sit here for hours and make a whole post/article...
Short version:
GW2 ruined PVE in every other game. It fundamentally understands that pve needs to be hotjoin, and encourage jumping right into playing with others. every single quest is effectively multiplayer.
Quests do not exist for YOU. they exist for the world. You simply stumble upon them all. No ! markers. no hubs. Events are already going on in the world, and you come across them, as they are happening in real time. It may not be perfect in execution. but the fundamentals are right.

TESO is the complete opposite. everything is phased. quests only exist for you. So much so, that often you are standing there talking to npcs only you can see. fighting npcs that are only hostile to you. getting quest rewards only you will get, and someone else on that same questline, will need to finish up their quest, and get on the same part of that questline. This is not just archaic, its actually a step backwards from 1999 games. At least they weren't phased.


Depth of exploration in TESO. I don't know. I found very little. Treasure maps I guess. do the foxes do anything? sure seemed like they were purely for looks, in this.

Fogia_sl said:

I'm assuming you can respec as many times as you want (not taking into account the cost). So I'm looking for a class that can cover multiple roles (on top of the flexibility introduced by weapon skills), so I can respec when I want some change.
So far, it seems Templar can assume Tank/Healer/DPS roles decently for either solo, groupe PvE and PvP contents. Am I mistaken there ? And could there be a more versatile class (I was looking at Nightblade too) ?

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All 4 classes can do all three roles.

Sorcs have a bit of trouble with intrinsic healing and are much more reliant on the restoration staff. Good mitigation cooldowns, good damage.

Ran with a Dragon Knight who regularly swapped to restoration staff to help with heals. DK's have good Earthen buffs. Single target threat is there. I've seen some issues with Aoe threat, good mitigation cooldowns though.

I play a Nightblade healer, works kind of like a blood mage/Disciple of Kaine, deal damage to heal. More damage done, the bigger the HoT on your nearby allies. Pairs well with restoration staff for passives + Regen spam. **Having in combat stealth both group and personal really adds some safety in PVP if they see your lasers from your restoration staff and focus you**

- NB Tanks can gain AOE threat quite well with the hybrid PBAE siphon skill + ultimate spam as it gains both damage threat and healing threat.

- Good Magicka gain from Siphoning Blades

Templar has the best large coverage and burst healing, due to intrinsic class skillset.
Mitigation is based on self healing here, recent nerf to mana gained on ability usage has caused some rage.

Let me know if you need more details than this.

Utnayan_sl said:

I do not think you are going to find anyone arguing your subjective view of what fun is.

What we are talking about is Megaserver and bandaid fixes - their lack of testing knowing that server issues are at play for game breaking progression bugs forcing people to grind mobs to get to Cyrodil. (Which based on other opinions here is all anyone cares about aside from a few that find the PvE fun). When I talk about Matt Firor and Paul Sage, I talk about their track record with Matt not being able to make successful business decisions in who to hire/promote/fire (Although that is the incestuous nature of all companies in this industry - still, he perpetuates that - while at the same time playing a PR card to save box sales as noted with his comments that combat feedback was positive and they were moving onto other issues with the game as of last August, when even Rescorla stated that PTR closed beta were still hammering ZO about combat issues non stop 4 months after that statement) and Paul Sage being a top down developer who doesn't listen to anyone on his team and forces down design decisions, whether good for the game or not. (This is fairly well known by anyone with a pulse at this point.)

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As far as Matt saying combat feedback is positive, what the hell do you expect him to say? "Hey, guys, our combat sucks!"? I find the combat fine, especially after the collision detection. It gets wonky at times but plays just fine for me. Despite what he said in a PR move, they obviously are attempting to fix the problem. They have improved it in the last couple of betas and I doubt they stop trying after release. As far as his hiring and firing decisions, who the hell knows? We don't work with any of these people. I don't know who does their job and who sits on their ass and collects a paycheck. Hell, I don't even know anyone on the team besides Matt and Paul Sage.

The end result we are seeing is another botched launch, poor testing models, poor server tech design, overall stale PvE design (You may like it, but I would venture about 90% of the people here already dislike the PvE portion of the game and are playing for Cyrodil based on the totality of the posts and opinions here in this thread and elsewhere) and what happened was also that Paul Sage took out the majority of the resources/assets with him to develop the 1-17 game.

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Launch has not arrived yet, so we have no idea if its a botched launch or not. Even if it has problems, which it probably will as that is par for the course in this industry, I can hardly condemn Zenimax for having the same problem almost every other damn MMO has had since EQ released. The smoothest release I have ever seen was Rift and even that had problems and one really, really major problem which will probably be worse than anything we see out of this release. With WoW we had the infamous 'loot lag', Warhammer was an abortion of a release, Age of Conan was horrible. The list goes on. I don't like it but if I judged every single MMO on release problems, I wouldn't play a single one.

The only thing I can say about the server tech was that it held up better with lots of players on screen than any other MMO I have ever played. It certainly displayed mass battles better than GW2 does. It did it better than WAR did. There were a few nights with lag and hiccups but most nights I had little problems.

I have no idea how many here find the PvE fun. I do know that many do find it fun on Reddit and a few other sites I frequent. Some people are burned out on the quest model entirely. Some are upset because it doesn't faithfully replicate the other Elder Scrolls games. Some dislike the story. There are plenty of people who do enjoy it, however.

And as for Paul Sage moving all the assets to the 1-17 game, I'm sorry, I have only your word on that. The same guy who stated confidently that they would not drop the NDA until release week. I am sorry if I don't completely trust it. I have seen no proof of your insider knowledge. All I have seen is general predictions that are easy to make. 'They are going to have a bad launch!'. Really? So has every other MMO. Bold prediction.

Either way, as of right now, the game is a week and a half from early access, without an open beta to correct these issues that are even stopping people from entering Cyrodil in the first place. I cannot imagine what is going to happen when everyone gets there. You know this, they know this. Their fix is to add another layer (untested) that will save progression so you can play the PvE game until you get to your server. The instance transfer system untested, and I cannot even imagine what is going to happen to the Database on character transfer (copy) under load. Not to mention how broken the PvE will be in the non-server queue.

Two Options:

1) They know this. Which is why they are not doing an open beta because they won't be able to fix it anyway. The instance queue is a stop gap because they * Can't * fix it.
2) Option 1 confirmed internally.

That's just the way it is. And people can try to deflect it all they want. It isn't going to stop people from buying the game, it isn't going to stop people from playing the game. It won't stop me from trying it in the fall when it goes F2P. Preorders have been effected as a result of the poor showing in the weekend betas. Those are the facts. Nothing more, nothing less.

Enjoy your game. See you online in September.

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The last two betas have been open betas in everything but name. They gave out hundreds of thousands of keys on websites. They gave everyone with previous beta access multiple friend keys. Everyone who wanted to try this game had the opportunity to do it. That 'point' is moot.

The overflow system is just another way to get around queues. GW2 had a similar overflow system and they didn't test it publicly before release either as far as I know. And as far as it going F2P, I won't bet against it doing so in the future. Hell, I won't bet against that withanyMMO that doesn't have Warcraft somewhere in the name. It is the unfortunate nature of the beast now a days. I would bet against it going F2P by the fall but who knows?

Caliane_sl said:

Its some of the worst ever.

TESO is the complete opposite. everything is phased. quests only exist for you. So much so, that often you are standing there talking to npcs only you can see. fighting npcs that are only hostile to you. getting quest rewards only you will get, and someone else on that same questline, will need to finish up their quest, and get on the same part of that questline. This is not just archaic, its actually a step backwards from 1999 games. At least they weren't phased.

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This is what I felt. I didn't hate TESO, let me be clear. But as someone who played Morrowind and such, the PvE simply wasn't good. At all. It was voice acted well, but it was completely unnecessary since I could just read the script right there. I guess I'm supposed to enjoy looking at generic Elf faces while talking and that draws me in, lol?

At no point was it easy to get involved into the story and questing to make me want to keep going. Extremely isolated.

The reason it works in the single player Scrolls games like the offline versions is that there, you already know there isn't anyone in the world to help you and you are truly that guy who woke up in a prison and have to find your way out. In TESO, there are all these 'other' mopes standing around me looking weird, running around talking to the same people I am, doing the same things that are supposed to be just about me. Then we all meet up in some cave or house where the first three people killed the NPCs and you just run up and.. click the book. Or the altar. Or whatever. Or, something's already dead and there's a circle jerk of mismatched people standing around going 'Is this bugged again or am I in the wrong spot?'

It's sooooo boring. It only really works when YOU can do that like in the single player. The times where you want help or your buddies to join you.. "sorry, wrong phasing". Really? Even SWTOR for all it's diarrhea-inducing quests had it better than this.

You could have a buddy of a different class come WITH you in YOUR story. They don't choose dialogue but if they weren't planning on being a Bounty Hunter, they got to see what YOUR world was like. It's like if right now, you need a buddy to come help you fix your backyard fence. He helps you put it up, you guys then sit around and have a beer, shoot some shit and then he leaves. Two days later, you can call a different buddy to help you with the next part.. staining it and you make BBQ for him as thanks. They both exist in YOUR story but can be a part of it and help you, seeing something they wouldn't normally see.

TESO? Nope. Your story is busted after following a long chain, friends aren't even spectators as you said because they can't even SEE the mobs, much less see what your quest is about. In TOR, if someone was in the wrong phase, click a button and bam! Now there they are, no 'logging out/in' 10x before you might get it right. I don't even know how that's a thing in 2014.

2014.

I know I've been talking about that dreaded I-word, immersion, in a game about PvP but it's the main reason why I wanted to try the beta out since I liked the Elder Scrolls series. Not mainly so I could pour hot oil on ten guys.. already said, I can do that for free in GW2 and that game isn't even my favorite.

Caliane_sl said:

Its some of the worst ever.

We've already been over it. And to really talk about it. I would need to sit here for hours and make a whole post/article...
Short version:
GW2 ruined PVE in every other game. It fundamentally understands that pve needs to be hotjoin, and encourage jumping right into playing with others. every single quest is effectively multiplayer.
Quests do not exist for YOU. they exist for the world. You simply stumble upon them all. No ! markers. no hubs. Events are already going on in the world, and you come across them, as they are happening in real time. It may not be perfect in execution. but the fundamentals are right.

TESO is the complete opposite. everything is phased. quests only exist for you. So much so, that often you are standing there talking to npcs only you can see. fighting npcs that are only hostile to you. getting quest rewards only you will get, and someone else on that same questline, will need to finish up their quest, and get on the same part of that questline. This is not just archaic, its actually a step backwards from 1999 games. At least they weren't phased.


Depth of exploration in TESO. I don't know. I found very little. Treasure maps I guess. do the foxes do anything? sure seemed like they were purely for looks, in this.

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See, I hated PvE in GW2. Itsoundedlike such a good idea when described but the reality of it just killed it for me. I remember a 'dynamic' event (I hate using that word because there is really nothing dynamic about it) where you killed some guys on a bridge, completed that and then went into the village and killed some more guys, then went further in and killed a boss. Then everyone ran back to the bridge and waited for the event to start again, which it did after five minutes or so. Players just did that over and over and over. It killed immersion for me.

In short, I liked the idea of GW2 more than the reality. The same went for the idea of PvE without the holy-trinity. Man, that sounded amazing. But, after actually doing a few dungeons, I absolutely hated it.

Truthfully, I dislike the heavy phasing as well. I can get past it but I dislike it. I understand why they did it, just like I can understand why GW2 pushed their events so hard, but I am not particularly fond of it. I blame phasing on Blizzard. They started the fad and its just gotten worse. Every developer now thinks everyone wants apersonal storybut all it does is take away immersion and makes the game feel lonely at times.

I explored quite a bit in ESO. Had some of my most fun when I did, too. I found quests off the beaten path, did some mob grinding. Found some interesting mobs occasionally. Nothing groundbreaking but certainly no less exploration here than in most MMOs.

esloan_sl said:

I don't like it but if I judged every single MMO on release problems, I wouldn't play a single one.

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Or for a very long time. Or whenever they got their shit together. Whichever comes first.

Which is entirely acceptable and expected.

Which is all most people are saying. A lot of us don't feel TESO is at that point now so, no cheese, but no one other than Ut is really saying 'don't buy it'. We are just saying WE won't buy it because X, Y, Z.

Jackdaddio_sl said:

Or for a very long time. Or whenever they got their shit together. Whichever comes first.

Which is entirely acceptable and expected.

Which is all most people are saying. A lot of us don't feel TESO is at that point now so, no cheese, but no one other than Ut is really saying 'don't buy it'. We are just saying WE won't buy it because X, Y, Z.

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I've been saying not to buy this game if you don't have any friends and do not intend to make any. Not sure if that counts.

In my ultra-subjective opinion, you need friends to make this game worth the purchase.

Additional Edit: Friends for this genre are getting harder to find as time goes on and tastes change, if anyone needs some help finding some PM me.

Caliane_sl said:

GW2 ruined PVE in every other game. It fundamentally understands that pve needs to be hotjoin, and encourage jumping right into playing with others. every single quest is effectively multiplayer.
Quests do not exist for YOU. they exist for the world. You simply stumble upon them all. No ! markers. no hubs. Events are already going on in the world, and you come across them, as they are happening in real time. It may not be perfect in execution. but the fundamentals are right.

TESO is the complete opposite. everything is phased. quests only exist for you. So much so, that often you are standing there talking to npcs only you can see. fighting npcs that are only hostile to you. getting quest rewards only you will get, and someone else on that same questline, will need to finish up their quest, and get on the same part of that questline. This is not just archaic, its actually a step backwards from 1999 games. At least they weren't phased.
.

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I wouldn't go that far. GW2 traded ! and other markers(see PoIs in this game) for hearts and I forget the marker for events. You didn't happen upon stuff happening, you saw it on your map long before you got there and then ran to it. Not sure how it ruined PVE for any other game. It was really no different then most games(besides grind based ones) with the main difference of events just turning into repeatable quest.

I will give you the multiplayer aspect of it for events because that was pretty much what it was, just run up and joy the fray. Hearts were not, because it didn't matter what others players were doing, your progress was the only one that counted for you(other players would finish and run off).

As for your 2nd sentence its true for the main story line(which isolates you alone) and it seems true for some of the quest where you have a escort in a tomb and the NPC guild quests. You canno't join other people in these it seems nor have others join you. But in every other quest you will be hunting a long side others. Yes it does phase. Good example. Quest where you talk to the ghost in a building and he opens up 3 portals. As soon as the 3 portals open you are shifted into a different phase, so people who have not talked to the npc won't see you anymore, but anyone who has will. When you enter this portals you are again fighting a long side anyone else that happens to be in that portal also.

The main difference being there is no "shared progress" in these, everyone does their own thing(just like hearts) but they are still in the same area and can still help each other clear mobs(only need 10% dmg to get full exp credit). I have experienced this in the majority of my quest.

The only thing they are really missing is Events and while they have anchors they are pretty bland compared to events of GW2.

So no Gw2 hasnt ruined PVE for every other game. The events were the best part and only the first time, after that you just repeated them for exp. The majority of the content were hearts, which were just quest. And the dungeons were horrible(but that was mostly due to class design).

This is talking bugs aside.

Utnayan_sl said:

No it doesn't count. It's an MMORPG for Christ sake.

"Hey guys you shouldn't buy this Xbox game if you don't like using a controller"

I am saying don't buy it because it continues this behavior and until there is literally NO Scapegoat, nothing ever changes. Course who the hell am I kidding. There will always be a scapegoat. "It didn't sell because The Elder Scrolls Fans didn't want an MMORPG - ... Oh Hey, That's Rich Vogel. Battlecry Studios calls for my next 5 year stint."

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Hold up Ut, are you saying you played ESO with friends? It wasn't quite as obvious as you make it out to be. :-D

Although I might just be entirely misunderstanding your context. *shrug*

FWIW, I think controllers are the worst, so I don't buy xbox/ps stuff. *additionalshrug*

Caliane_sl said:

Its some of the worst ever.

We've already been over it. And to really talk about it. I would need to sit here for hours and make a whole post/article...
Short version:
GW2 ruined PVE in every other game. It fundamentally understands that pve needs to be hotjoin, and encourage jumping right into playing with others. every single quest is effectively multiplayer.

Click to expand...

I have over 1800 hours in GW2. I am level 44 in fractals in a full suit of ascended, completely decked with one legendary and 2/3 of the way to a second. The open world leveling PvE in GW2 is great. Absolutely no doubt. The post 80 PvE is some of the worst in gaming. The dungeons? Seriously? The stories in GW2? Meh.

Most important, there is not one thing about that game that in any way ruined TESO for me. They are completely different MMO experiences. If nothing else, it's new content in a new world. COntent in GW2 has really stagnated for anyone like me that enjoys the exploration and discovery aspects of open world PvE coupled with hard as can be dungeon running.

Are we including character design in the wondrous GW2 PvE? Um me and my EVERYONE ELSE dps build called, ALL AT ONCE cause WE are ALL ON THE SAME PARTY LINE. No diversity. No interdependence. That's PvE right? At least TESO has build variety and interdependence of roles.

Oh and Downed state? Tattoo a fucking easy mode death state on my forehead and send me off to shittyplayerville! The single most important thing in all of GW2 PvE is noticing when someone is half lying on the ground. GJ arenanet!!!

Look, I obviously (1800 hours worth) love me some GW2, but to say it ruined PvE for everyone? COme the F on and be serious.

esloan_sl said:

See, I hated PvE in GW2. Itsoundedlike such a good idea when described but the reality of it just killed it for me. I remember a 'dynamic' event (I hate using that word because there is really nothing dynamic about it) where you killed some guys on a bridge, completed that and then went into the village and killed some more guys, then went further in and killed a boss. Then everyone ran back to the bridge and waited for the event to start again, which it did after five minutes or so. Players just did that over and over and over. It killed immersion for me.

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FYI, you can make the exact same argument vs TESO.

"Anchors sounded like such a good idea when described but the reality of it just killed it for me. I remember a 'dynamic' event (I hate using that word because there is really nothing dynamic about it) where you killed some mobs around a backyard fire pit, killed a 'not boss five minutes later' and then everyone left going 'where's my reward?' Players would shout "anchor up" in /zone and people did that at the old same fire pit over and over. It killed immersion for me."

And wtf.. were you physically tied to the hip to all those people doing that in GW2 or something? You realize that was a PUBLIC event, not a private quest right? Once YOU do the event, YOU are free to move onto the NEXT event down the road or go back to your normal storyline and questing. Other people likely came and showed up for the next event down the road, at least on the servers I was on during those they did. Did all the 'dynamic events' in your starting zone? Port over to the other starting or later zones and do those instead, all different from the ones you just did.

I still have no idea why you continue to try and make GW2 as some sort of fall guy for things you didn't like, when you have exactly the same mechanics in TESO (TESO anchors=GW2 dynamic events) just done in a far, far worse way. You talked about Ut having a grudge, but your personal grudges seem to have less of a grounding in reality than his does.