The Hobbit

The Ancient_sl said:

There is a happy medium between to-the-letter translation andzanyescape from Goblin Town. Some of us were hoping Jackson would hit it, based on the strength of what he did with the LotR films. The film didn't have to be Cartoonish to appeal to children.

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Well like I said, I didn't agree with all of the changes Jackson made to The Hobbit. However, Christopher Tolkien was unhappy with how the LOTR were changed as well, and I think it's pretty generally accepted by most book fans that they were almost perfectly translated into film.

Siddar_sl said:

The Romanian super Orc seemed out of place for middle earth did he come to middle earth from another dimension?

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no. he came from capua.

aychamo_aycono_sl said:

Sure, the hobbit was a "children's book." But the target audience wasn't 12 year olds for the movie. They should have made it with the same grit and feel of LOTR.

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That would be entirely contrary to the book.

Just watched part of the Return of the King and it made me realize The Hobbit also suffers from not having enough diverse and interesting characters that people care about. I don't even remember the names of any of the dwarves. I know this is mostly story about them, but too many on screen at once, and the lack of more human-like characters, really had a major impact. Does anyone really care about a nameless dwarf dying? Besides the main guy, Bilbo and Gandalf, there was no one else I was truly interested in. Gollum was cute for a while, then I just wanted to fast-forward.

They've definitely developed character for Thorin, Balin, Fili, Kili and Bofur.

I don't really think that's a failing though, it wasn't much different in the book. Bombur was the fat one and that's really all there was to him that I can recall.

eVasiege_sl said:

Just watched part of the Return of the King and it made me realize The Hobbit also suffers from not having enough diverse and interesting characters that people care about. I don't even remember the names of any of the dwarves. I know this is mostly story about them, but too many on screen at once, and the lack of more human-like characters, really had a major impact. Does anyone really care about a nameless dwarf dying? Besides the main guy, Bilbo and Gandalf, there was no one else I was truly interested in. Gollum was cute for a while, then I just wanted to fast-forward.

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I really think that this is getting besides the point.

The reason The Hobbit failed as a movie has nothing to do with the fact that its all about a band of dwarves, it was instead simply the direction that PJ took the film in. The movie didn't fail because we don't have more 'human' characters to identify with, that is getting way to in-depth, you don't need to go deep to find the shitty qualities of the film.

Fyro_sl said:

I really think that this is getting besides the point.

The reason The Hobbit failed as a movie has nothing to do with the fact that its all about a band of dwarves, it was instead simply the direction that PJ took the film in. The movie didn't fail because we don't have more 'human' characters to identify with, that is getting way to in-depth, you don't need to go deep to find the shitty qualities of the film.

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exactly. you don't have to have humans on screen to give them human qualities and have people empathize with them. take "WALL-E" for example. the movie essentially is about 2 robots in love, but since they are given human traits, it totally works and is a great film. the problem with "the hobbit" is for most of the movie, because of all the comic relief, there is no real sense of danger. the dialogue also felt more forced in "the hobbit" than in the LOTR movies, and PJ did a poor job or creating any type of real empathy or connection with most of the characters on screen; something that he did brilliantly in the LOTR movies. again, people can say that the "hobbit" was more of a kids movie, but it really wasn't. it was an adventure that an unsuspecting protagonist went on who wound up becoming a hero he never thought he could be. again, i think if PJ would have taken a more serious tone with this film like he did before, and if perhaps he would have made it 1 movie or maybe 2, i think it could have been just as epic as the original. unfortunately now we're more than likely going to have 3 movies that will disappoint as much as the star wars prequels disappointed after the original 3, and that is a shame.

Whoa whoa whoa, The Hobbit failed as a movie?

McCheese_sl said:

Well like I said, I didn't agree with all of the changes Jackson made to The Hobbit. However, Christopher Tolkien was unhappy with how the LOTR were changed as well, and I think it's pretty generally accepted by most book fans that they were almost perfectly translated into film.

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I don't know ANY book fans who think the movies were almost perfect to the books. I really liked all three of the LoTR movies but they weren't even fucking close to the books on a LOT of stuff.

I enjoyed the movie, but I was pretty fucking stoned when I saw it.

etchazz_sl said:

it was an adventure that an unsuspecting protagonist went on who wound up becoming a hero he never thought he could be.

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Uh, hello. That's the whole point of the book.

Hyoerbole up in hurr

Wizardhawk_sl said:

I don't know ANY book fans who think the movies were almost perfect to the books. I really liked all three of the LoTR movies but they weren't even fucking close to the books on a LOT of stuff.

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I didn't say they were close to the books, I said they were almost perfectlytranslated, meaning that the (necessary) changes which were made to the story/plot/characters did not hurt the movies. Taking a book and putting it on-screen without any changes to account for the different medium is idiotic. Keeping Tom Bombadil in the movies, for example, would have ended up as absurd as Radagast was in The Hobbit.

Were the LOTR movies perfect? Of course not. But they were very goodtranslationsfrom book to film. The Hobbit movie was translated between mediums much less successfully.

Xalara_sl said:

Whoa whoa whoa, The Hobbit failed as a movie?

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This...

Pretty much the movie was a financial success and the most prominent complaint has been regarding the way it was filmed. Each time I watched it, people left the theatre with good things to say. i'm a pretty die hard fan and went in with minimal expectations and I was pleasantly surprised. I do not feel any different than I did after watching FOTR. I'm assuming that each movie will get better.

Muligan_sl said:

This...

Pretty much the movie was a financial success and the most prominent complaint has been regarding the way it was filmed. Each time I watched it, people left the theatre with good things to say. i'm a pretty die hard fan and went in with minimal expectations and I was pleasantly surprised. I do not feel any different than I did after watching FOTR. I'm assuming that each movie will get better.

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Not really sure where financial success equates to quality. Christ, people love "Honey Boo-boo" and it's quite financially sound, does that mean we cannot bash on "Honney Boo-boo"?

I walked out of the theater embarrassed for what I had seen. I literally squirmed in my seat during some parts they were so bad. Maybe I take my movies more serious than I did when I was younger, but fuck, I cannot say this movie was decent. Maybe if I hadn't been expecting something epic then I would have been happy, but really, LoTR trilogy rocked and since we all heard that they were doing The Hobbit we have been pumped. I don't think any of you can honestly say that this was an adequate follow up to what we know PJ is capable of.

I agree, it is just better to understand context for discussion. If we believe The Hobbit is a failure based on director decisions or trueness to the story then I or even people and this board can agree and disagree. But to say it is just a "fail" I don't think is fair. That was my point. I do agree with you in some regard to some missed opportunity and I believe we could give a line item list of how we could have made this better but eh, I'm glad its made. I read my son the books and he loved the movie so in my mind, if a child enjoyed something aimed to be a children's book then it has some level of success. Again this is all subjective and opinions...