The Irishman (2018)

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Khane

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Mean Streets is on Netflix right now. A lot of Goodfellas came directly from that movie, he even used the same Rolling Stones songs.

Early Scorcese seemed like Keitel was going to be his main guy but obvs that ended up being DeNiro. Anyone know what happened there?

Both of them are objectively bad actors. They can only play one part. They just have a look that works for that one part and that's why they get cast. I think Keitel may have been too short for Scorsese? He's pretty fucking short. Pesci is short too, except Pesci can actually act.

Seriously... Robert DeNiro is the most overrated actor of all time. The guy sucks. He always has. And he always will. The thing is, he was always cast correctly. He did a good enough job in almost every role he ever played because he was cast as Robert DeNiro to look like Robert DeNiro and talk like Robert DeNiro. Trey and Matt should have put a "Robert DeNiro" scene into the South Park movie right after the Matt Damon scene.
 
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iannis

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He is cast really well. But honestly, in Deer Hunter he's pretty good. And Taxi Driver.

Its a similar sort of introverted man. In the case of Deer Hunter he's the wounded warrior. In Taxi Driver he's borderline retarded.

So yeah I can see it. But he really is good in those two movies. Of course both of those were when he was young. Shit, I think Deer Hunter came out before I was born. Nah, it didn't. 78. But I was little.
 

TheBeagle

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He is cast really well. But honestly, in Deer Hunter he's pretty good. And Taxi Driver.

Its a similar sort of introverted man. In the case of Deer Hunter he's the wounded warrior. In Taxi Driver he's borderline retarded.

So yeah I can see it. But he really is good in those two movies. Of course both of those were when he was young. Shit, I think Deer Hunter came out before I was born. Nah, it didn't. 78. But I was little.
I forgot about the Deerhunter. That was another long, meandering mess of a movie. Great acting and one of the most memorable scenes in cinematic history, but it too needed about an hour shaved off.
 
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Aaron

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Watched this the other day. I guess I'm one of the 18%ers who got through it all, and in one setting too. Felt too long, though as pointed out above, could have been made to work better as a miniseries.

I agree with most here that the guys are too old. It's a film that on paper I should love: Scorsese directing the "big boys" in another epic crime flick? But they're just too old. Pacino is probably still "there" the way he portrays Hoffa, but De Niro? De Niro is a guy who in his prime you could just LOOK at and know you don't mess with him. Now, he could have walked up to me with a knife and I'd have been half in mind to say "OK, Boomer!" to his face. The menace that once was just isn't there. As for Joe Pesci... the poor bastard. Out of what retirement home did they wheel him? He did his best, but damn, the poor bastard.

Had they made this film 20 years ago it would have been a classic. Now... well, take care old fellas! It was nice knowing ya!
 
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Elderan

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Took me about 3 sittings to finish it lol I am getting too old to watch these 3+ hour movies.

Was hard to get over some 70 year old dude playing a 35 year old guy in the start. Everyone was just far too old to get around. Also was really hard knowing this is based on a true story but everyone knows that Frank Sheeran was basically full of crap and only did a small percent of what he claim to have done.

Overall I gave it 6 of 10 stars. Mostly for the setting it was in.
 

LiquidDeath

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Movies like this are the strongest evidence why TV series are now the best vehicle for real story telling. I like it, but just give me a 4 episode mini-series. I don't need to be trying to figure out where I can stop the goddamn thing to pick up later.

Also, for all the shit we heard from woke-scolds about how few words Anna Paquin had, I thought it was a pretty great piece of film making that it took less than 10 words for her to confirm that her father was 100% the piece of shit she knew he was.
 

Jozu

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I think one thing that is often overlooked not only in movies today, but maybe just cinema period, is the appreciation of the setting and how it can transport and convince you of the time and place, and allows you to see what things were like during such interesting times.

The Kennedy assassination shit was interesting, the behind the scenes look at The Teamsters was also awesome. Those elements of the film were well done, the attention to detail was exquisite.

The acting, plot and length were meh, the biggest reason to watch the film IMO was everything besides what people would expect ( the 3 main actors, Scorsese film etc)
 
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Lanx

Oye Ve
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Movies like this are the strongest evidence why TV series are now the best vehicle for real story telling. I like it, but just give me a 4 episode mini-series. I don't need to be trying to figure out where I can stop the goddamn thing to pick up later.

Also, for all the shit we heard from woke-scolds about how few words Anna Paquin had, I thought it was a pretty great piece of film making that it took less than 10 words for her to confirm that her father was 100% the piece of shit she knew he was.
what other scenes was she in besides a funeral scene and the bank teller scene?
 

LiquidDeath

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what other scenes was she in besides a funeral scene and the bank teller scene?

The scene after the Hoffa hit where they are watching the TV report about Hoffa being missing for 3 days and he remarks that he needs to call Hoffa's wife.
 

spronk

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Got through after 3 nights watching an hour every time, same as everyone else a 3/5 at best probably really just a 2/5, gets a bonus point for at least being very immersive. The main character is such a boring fuck. This was basically the story of Goodfellas except the "man it sucks getting old" version with shitty gangsters. They were the lamest gangsters in the world, its like a PSA to young kids "you wanna be tough? Watch this movie, you'll want to go into computer science after it!"

i can't believe netflix paid like $200m or whatever for this. As an old guy I totally appreciated and loved all the "fuck... being old sucks" but I can't believe they made such an expensive movie for the AARP crowd
 

Lithose

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I agree with others; low tier of Scorsese. Good film overall, but too reliant on actors that were not up to the physical aspects of acting anymore. Why he chose to not use stunt doubles and blend in their features if he was using de-aging tech is stupid. It was like he was being obstinate just to try and stick inside his wheel house.

Only other issue is it felt like his editor fell asleep at the wheel or she just had too much bullshit to work with this time. Some of the scenes went on for so long they almost felt like a parody of a normal Scorsese scene, like if you took the clown scene from goodfellas and stretched it out far longer to make it awkward. A lot of Hoffa's scenes were like this. They could have gotten the point across in half the time.

Someone else said it, but this felt like it should have been a TV series that they managed to crush into a film but couldn't quite fit it all and said fuck it, and just let it run forever
 

Khane

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Yea well, didn't Scorsese pan streaming services as bad for cinema? Guess it doesn't matter when the money is there.
 

Bondurant

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Yea well, didn't Scorsese pan streaming services as bad for cinema? Guess it doesn't matter when the money is there.

He knew he wasn't going to get his next movie done with traditional Hollywood financing, he said it here and his latest movies had budget problems. One could think "come on, it's Martin fucking Scorsese doing a mafia movie with both DeNiro, Pacino and Pesci on board and it's about Jimmy Hoffa, why would anyone willing to produce that?" Well, production companies nowadays have shareholders to please and focus on profitability, not risks.

Wolf Of Wall Street got into money laundering / embezzlment problems, they even got fined for that. And regarding Silence, his last movie before The Irishman, he had a more humble budget and it still bombed at box office. Also Scorsese is known for being a control freak, having a say in every aspect of his movies and regularly fight producers about final cut, editing and casting choices. From a producer perspective, he's an uncompromising pain in the ass and a living director god which can become extremely hard to manage during a feature production.

That's why he went to Netflix, they don't really care about doing financial hits they just want top poster content to reap subscriptions. He could have gone to Amazon as well, they're known to litteraly throw hundreds of millions to people and don't give a single look during production (that's why Refn's surrealist and weird Too Old To Die Young got done there). That's pretty much a "give me your money and check results afterwards" deal a guy like Scorsese would seek, doing his vision while not being bothered by studio executives breathing down his neck during the production.

And it's just my opinion, but I think that's why he lately got so salty about Marvel, he just doesn't understand why nowadays Marvel franchise flicks got $200m budget on a whim when he has to struggle and compromise to get a movie done. He's one of the old dudes who started the New Hollywood thing, when the industry shifted from producer movies to director movies. A cycle which is, quite ironically, happening again with Marvel heavily producing movies with throwaway yesmen directors who have almost no say in anything besides how their name is spelled on the poster. History repeating itself, or to quote The Irishman, "it is what it is".
 
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spronk

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Maybe if these old-new Hollywood fuckers gave a nanosecond of time to work on building a nationwide system of theater chains that were non profit, showed old movies weekly, didn't gouge people on prices, let people eat before the meal (or whatever Alamo does), etc etc they wouldn't have seen the entire movie industry hollowed out over the last 30 years to the point where the theaters are all owned by foreign companies (China owns AMC, England owns Regal) and they only want a few big blockbuster or horror movies a month that will pack seats and could zero fucks about "artsy" movies.

Price gouging on everything, endless trash movies, shitty movie experiences, and the rapid speed at which movies arrive on VOD/streaming have led most people to say fuck going to the theaters and all those directors who were happy to take money from Hollywood but did virtually nothing to ensure the next 2 or 3 generations of movie goers had the same experiences they had growing up are reaping the results. At least people like GRRM actually bought a movie theater and show whatever they want.
 
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chaos

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The Kennedy assassination shit was interesting, the behind the scenes look at The Teamsters was also awesome. Those elements of the film were well done, the attention to detail was exquisite.


I feel kind of the opposite. I think it was a missed opportunity. Like, if you didn't go into this movie knowing what the Teamsters were and what they did, I don't think that you would walk out of this movie understanding that in the slightest. For all it's faults, if you watch Hoffa by DeVito, you sure as shit know what the Teamsters are. It spent a lot of time on the relationships between Frank and Hoffa and Pesci's character, but (i feel) didn't flesh out the relationships between the organizations in a way that makes you understand how they work together or even what the organizations (ie the Teamsters) really represent.

The AV Club just named this movie the best movie of the year. I really feel like I'm not seeing something, feels like a sympathy win for Scorsese.
 

Bondurant

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I feel kind of the opposite. I think it was a missed opportunity. Like, if you didn't go into this movie knowing what the Teamsters were and what they did, I don't think that you would walk out of this movie understanding that in the slightest. For all it's faults, if you watch Hoffa by DeVito, you sure as shit know what the Teamsters are. It spent a lot of time on the relationships between Frank and Hoffa and Pesci's character, but (i feel) didn't flesh out the relationships between the organizations in a way that makes you understand how they work together or even what the organizations (ie the Teamsters) really represent.

It's probably because the movie is based from the 2004 "I heard you paint houses" book which is heavily centered on Frank Sheeran, DeNiro character. While some of his confessions are still disputed, it's quite clear he was a hitman for the Mafia and he killed a lot of people while working with / for people like Bufalino and Hoffa. They certainly could have done a better job at explaining what the Teamsters were, showing how Hoffa got into power, the McClellan / AFL-CIO stuff and why he was embedded with the Mafia.
 

Zaara

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Good comparison. I think this is the closest thing I've seen to subtle and believable face augmentation. Makes sense why the grocer beatdown scene stood out so stark, though.

Proves my theory that the uncanniness was all in the eyes.
 
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