The Trayvon Trial
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Tanoomba
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I can't argue with you because you only use logic and reason. Of course, you're right that nothing about Zimmerman's behavior that I described is technically illegal. Unless it can be proven that Zimmerman instigated the fight (which almost certainly won't happen), he will get away with being a racist prick who's actions resulted in the death of an innocent young man, which again isn't technically illegal. I suppose I let this fact rile me up and the justice-seeker in me wants to see him go to jail. Heck, him not going to jail would basically send the message that it's OK to get into a fight with someone for any reason, then shoot and kill them, and as long as nobody saw the fight you can claim self-defense and get away with it. I don't want to see this happen, but it looks like that's the direction we're heading.
who cares, another American Inventor bites the dust, except this time it wasnt another American Inventor or gang member who shot him.
I'm not fond of how this is likely to turn out either. Regardless of what can be proven, I think it's quite likely that Zimmerman badgered Martin until the kid did what any kid would do, get pissed off and confront the crazy guy who'd been following him around for no good reason. He just happened to do this with a Charles Bronson wanna-be who drew down as soon as he realized he'd bitten off more than he could chew.
However, our justice system is based on a presumption of innocence. So as distasteful as I find it to be, if it can't beproventhat Zimmerman did anything illegal, he should be acquitted.
I'm waiting for the trial that starts because a flash rob freaks out a small business owner and he opens fire on a group that is statistically likely to be all black. Thats going to be the ugly trial. This is just a mini preview.
BoldW
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Has this ever not been the case? You need physical evidence. It is stacked for the defendant. But it's the way it should be. I'd rather let a guilty man go than prosecute an innocent man.
The fact is the only single person who knows for a fact what happened (and there's not enough physical evidence for us to dispute it) is Zimmerman. He gets to walk. Think he'll ever pull a gun on someone again? I doubt it.
khalid
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Good intelligent from the heart post.
What riles me up about this case is that most of the people convinced Zimmerman should be guilty are basing it on him instigating something by just following someone. Just following someone SHOULD NOT, at all, be anything close to something that should start a physical confrontation. Gavinrad said that in his neighborhood, if you did that you would get more than a beating. Well, that sounds like a fucking horrible and unsafe place to live. Not only that, but starting a physical confrontation with someone simply based on you thinking they are following you is fucking stupidly dangerous and also has a good chance of just being someone that is going in the same direction as you. I walk my dog in the middle of the night, sometimes there is someone in front of me for a few blocks also walking their dog or doing whatever. Should I be worried they might attack me? Am I instigating a possible aggressor? I have a CC permit and carry when I go outside, if I get attacked because some paranoid person thinks I'm following them, will I be prosecuted for 2nd degree murder?
We have seen no evidence whatsoever, ZERO, that Zimmerman instigated the situation other than follow. If Zimmerman is convicted, the message will be that simply following someone is equivalent to a physical attack. That is absurd.
Lithose
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It is a very uncomfortable situation, no doubt. But as BoldW says, this situation has come up before--but it's usually domestic. A wife claims she killed her husband due to abuse (Middle of a fight, he's beating on her, she pulls a gun and pop), and gets off because it's self defense. Now, that situation is not totally the same because the wife usually has physical evidence of abuse (Previous injuries, hospital records ect)...But that's what this court case is trying to establish. Things like...Did Zimmerman have a history of (physically) antagonizing people? Has he been violent/aggressive with others? What do the wounds on him and Trayvon say? Was there reliable evidence leading up to his death that build a picture? ect, ect. All these things are meant to paint a picture--the same way, say, hospital records can paint a picture of an abusive marriage which exonerates the one being abused.
It's murky water, for sure. But when it's two people, with no witnesses, it's always been that way.
ZyyzYzzy
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Self-defense? Tanoomba says hire a hitman and kill the husband, and hopefully no one ever finds out.
Oh, come on. Let's put aside what can and cannot be proven, for a moment.
Do you really think that, given what we know about his history, that Zimmerman was just blithely following Martin and did absolutely nothing to escalate the situation? Yes, Martin's history is relevant too, and it's also probable that he felt disrespected or whatever and that he got aggro. But this narrative people are trying to generate that Zimmerman was just some innocent guy who got victimized by an angry young black man is ridiculous.
He was trying to play cop, it backfired on him, and he panicked and shot the kid in the ensuing scuffle. Regardless of what can be proven to the standard of guilt in a court of law, c'mon now. We all know exactly what happened here.
Do you really think that, given what we know about his history, that Zimmerman was just blithely following Martin and did absolutely nothing to escalate the situation? Yes, Martin's history is relevant too, and it's also probable that he felt disrespected or whatever and that he got aggro. But this narrative people are trying to generate that Zimmerman was just some innocent guy who got victimized by an angry young black man is ridiculous.
He was trying to play cop, it backfired on him, and he panicked and shot the kid in the ensuing scuffle. Regardless of what can be proven to the standard of guilt in a court of law, c'mon now. We all know exactly what happened here.
B_Mizzle
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Yep a violent, drug using, wannabe thug fucked with the wrong bull and got the horns.
khalid
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We don't know "exactly what happened here". If we did it would be alot easier. What we do know is that at some point Trayvon Martin was banging Zimmerman's head against the sidewalk, at which point Zimmerman pulled out a gun and shot him.
As for instigating a physical assault. Again, following is nothing. We know that Trayvon stopped to confront Zimmerman. If Zimmerman threw a punch at him, sure, then Trayvon was wronged, he went to defend himself, started winning and was shot.
Also, if Zimmerman was a "wannabe cop" then Trayvon was a "wannabe thug".
Arbitrary
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I've just got this feeling that Zimmerman grabbed the kid on the arm/attempted to grab at the kid or was otherwise the initiator of physical contact and the second that creep ass cracker laid a hand on Treyvon a fight started. That's what my gut tells me. That makes it not self defense. It's manslaughter.
As far as the prosecution goes and the rule of law the elements of murder in the second degree are not present and there is no way for anyone to believe that Zimmerman started the fight beyond a reasonable doubt.
As far as the prosecution goes and the rule of law the elements of murder in the second degree are not present and there is no way for anyone to believe that Zimmerman started the fight beyond a reasonable doubt.
Either that, or Zimmerman started questioning Martin. "What're you doin in this neighborhood, boah?"
Anyone who thinks that Zimmerman was "just following" Martin is an inbred hillbilly idiot.
khalid
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The evidence actually seems to point to Zimmerman backing off and Trayvon following Zimmerman to confront him.
What makes you convinced that Zimmerman was doing more than just following Trayvon? Because he was a "creepy ass cracker"?
khalid
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Because he was a creepy ass cracker who had called 911 47 times in one year to report "suspicious" people whose only criteria for being suspicious seemed to be that they were the wrong color to be in his neighborhood?
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