Torchlight: Infinite

Kythik said:

It's been ages so I don't recall the previous torchlight games as much. Infinite feels like they iterated upon Last Epoch, poor independent dev team, with plenty stolen from Path of Exile. I would pay $15 per league for a similarly limited currency looting pet in PoE; it's part of the monthly pass with other rewards in TLI. But, the loot vacuum button is good enough for those that don't want to pay. Most of the QoL changes I would ever want TLI has. The game doesn't explain any in-game mechanics, but that's normal now and even more so for games with similar monetization. Gacha for pets with some player power is minor p2w.

So far, TLI doesn't have the map density of PoE. Granted, I'm only doing tm7 maps, 8 is the end game with a damage/def increase similar to 100% delirium in PoE, and I haven't used much for mapping resources yet. It is nice not having to roll maps and pay attention for build countering mods. The game is fewer clicks; the mapping I'm doing is about a third of the clicks of even alch and go mapping in PoE(getting old sucks).

I had more fun this weekend playing this than I had recently with PoE. I didn't even bother with this d4 beta weekend. I feel that the mobile tag drove people off, it's why I hadn't given it any attention, and it's one of the best ARPGs out ATM.

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Yeah I feel like this. Really enjoying the game, and think it's fantastic. It's got great potential. I like TLI even more than Last Epoch. I do feel the mobile shit ruins a lot of it. I hope they come up with some kind of PC only client or at least a PC optimized one. But even with that said, its still just great.

Between games like D4, and this (to a lesser extent), Last Epoch, and other ARPGs coming I feel that path of exile is rapidly losing it's appeal to me. After playing TLI, the idea of right clicking wisdom scrolls to id 400 things in my stash feels like something I don't ever want to do again. I've been very vocal that I think path of exile is fucking amazing, but that GGG's philosophy that terrible QOL == game difficulty drives me fucking nuts.

The PC UI is terribad. That'w what I mean when I said the mobile aspects of the game ruin it. It doesnt mean its unplayable, it just really distracts from the experience.

The chat window being limited to 50 characters, the massive text even at smallest UI scale, etc. They need to re-do the UI on the pc something serious.

ronne said:

Please stop giving these P2W piles your money, I'm begging you.

It will never end if you keep playing them.

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Honestly, this game isn't really p2w in an unreasonable manner. If you want to keep up with the characters its $15 every 90 days.

The pactspirits, which are the primary thing you get if you throw money at the same, just aren't required. While you have things like the cube tripler pactspirit, the loot it will triple 99% of the time you already get plenty of and you'll be swimming in tons of useless currency you can't do anything about. It's only good when you get an FE, and even better when you hit the 25% to double greed it. But you'll also lose it too 75% of the time.

Overall, on it's face, it seems like a HUGE boost (omg triple loot!) but it's akin to buying triple wisdom scroll and triple transmutation orb drops 99% of the time, and 2 additional divine orbs (which I'd say a 60+ FE cube double greed would be) probably 0.1% of the time. A truly expensive, good item is probably 0.001% of the time. That also does not count the amount of FE you lose while failed greeding or other expensive, good items. If they start coming out with pactspirits that are truly exceptionally powerful and gated behind paywalls, I'll certainly change my tune.

Just because a game is free doesn't make it P2W. $15 every 90 days is perfectly fair for a game like this given the entertainment value provided for me. And even if your P2W bar is exceptionally low, the amount of P2W is far, far less than games like Genshin Impact, or any other gacha stamina/timegated monstrosity.

Kythik said:

Please stop giving money to studios that believe tedium is content or difficulty. I'm begging you. It will never end if you keep paying them.

I've spent more on tabs in PoE than I have unlocking the classes in TLI. The better/higher level gacha pets are most impactful for a few hours on a new character. There are no gear or skills to buy with cash. If anything the gacha cosmetics is some fuckery but that just seems like a poor decision on their part. This is less p2w than LAO.

I went in free on the first weekend. Enjoyed it a lot. Spent $50 for the pass, to unlock classes, and get more inventory/bank space. The autoloot pet is worthless and I have to hold the loot vacuum anyway.

I really suggest any PoE player give it an honest try. It has less content and high-end encounters than PoE but it felt like a better game within the first few levels. None of that first 100 hours of absolute trash that PoE has every league start.

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I think PoE is still in a better position, overall, than TLI. However, the tedium of clicks and GGG's refusial to add basic QOL has been sealing the deal for me in the last few expansions more and more. I'm not even talking about trade. Just basic, elementary stuff, like auto-sorting in tabs, or basic stack sizes rather than some things being 10, some 20, some 30, some 40. And not only that, when they DO add QoL, it often fucking sucks. Like search for something in the passive tree. Can you find it? Now do it in PoB, its got a giant red circle. What about figuring out what oils to use for a skill? Just a little icon of the oil is all you get. Hard as fuck to read what they are. What about playing PoE with absolutely no 3rd party filters, addons, or enhancements? Fucking sucks.

The QOL of PoE greatly damages the game. In TLI, it enhances it. The "game" of PoE is superior to TLI, but TLI is more fun to play.

In crucible I think I got 8 challenges before I quit. I'm not sure I'll play much more poe at this point in my life. I really love the game, and I'd come back if they put in basic, elementary QOL that is expected from any game. If PoE was new today, everyone would shit all over those design decisions. People making fun of me playing RF last 3 leagues, but its just to save my fucking wrists.

krismunich said:

You really think POE's "the whole screen must explode without anyone can tell what's really going on" is better than say D4's approach? I always thought POE's game was so beyond repair that only your build versus the whole mess was the actual meta game

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Yes. Because by the time you can have a build where the whole screen explodes, you do in fact know exactly what's going on.