Twitch.tv

Malakriss

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I would stop watching any platform that uses it. If another platform rises to replace it great, otherwise we can all do without.
 

Dom

Avatar of War Slayer
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There's absolutely nothing I would end up missing from Twitch. It serves as passive entertainment for me while I'm doing other things and could be abandoned without hesitation. It simply isn't worth being subjected to commercials.
 

Pyros

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Whelp, I'm about to watch a lot less twitch...

I wonder how long it will take people to figure out how to block these too.
If they do it right I don't know how you could block them. I assume the tech to do it "right" was more complicated than it sounded, but if the ads are directly into the stream you're getting, you can't block just one part of the stream, you either watch it or you don't. I guess you'll be able to do the old DVR shit where there'll be a plugin that just streams stuff with a delay and gets rid of ads automatically as it saves but you won't be watching live at this point.

Sounds fucky but as long as they don't play ads during the middle of games in tournaments and shit I'm ok with that, just play adds between games/rounds/whatever like normal TV and I'll just do what I already do, alt tab and go do something else until the game resumes.
 

amigo

Golden Squire
135
77
You can (possibly) block the ads injected directly into stream:
- if they are served from a different domain, block that domain
- filter out unwanted HLS segments by intercepting and patching the m3u8 files
Now if there is no distinguishable difference between regular segments and ad segments (same domain, no extra flags as per HLS standard, same segment naming convention), which I'd guess is unlikely, then you are fucked.
 

GuardianX

Perpetually Pessimistic
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If they do it right I don't know how you could block them. I assume the tech to do it "right" was more complicated than it sounded, but if the ads are directly into the stream you're getting, you can't block just one part of the stream, you either watch it or you don't. I guess you'll be able to do the old DVR shit where there'll be a plugin that just streams stuff with a delay and gets rid of ads automatically as it saves but you won't be watching live at this point.

Sounds fucky but as long as they don't play ads during the middle of games in tournaments and shit I'm ok with that, just play adds between games/rounds/whatever like normal TV and I'll just do what I already do, alt tab and go do something else until the game resumes.
The way I see it is, the ONLY way they can roll ads in the middle of a broadcast would be to delay ALL broadcasts before sending it, Because if people miss a major thing mid roll they will drop twitch like never before.

The more ads they push the greater the overall delay though, 10 second ad? 10 seconds of broadcast held in memory...10 seconds of ads every 10 minutes means that you'll have to have 60 seconds of recording for every hour and given that most streamers go for about 4-8 hours of streaming, by the 4th hour you are looking at a 3 minute delay and the 8th hour a 7 minute delay.

I dunno...I feel like streamers will be the ones to get the most angry because it will salt the fuck out of their communities. You won't have "Live-streaming" anymore you'll have delayed streaming.

---

Good idea on the DVR thought though. I bet that is where you'll have to go in terms of programming to remove ads...furthering the delay between the streamer and their community.

---

You can (possibly) block the ads injected directly into stream:
- if they are served from a different domain, block that domain
- filter out unwanted HLS segments by intercepting and patching the m3u8 files
Now if there is no distinguishable difference between regular segments and ad segments (same domain, no extra flags as per HLS standard, same segment naming convention), which I'd guess is unlikely, then you are fucked.
It SOUNDS like they are being transcoded INTO the broadcast meaning your browser will look at the ad like it would look at the stream. The ad, supposedly, would be indistinguishable from the desired content that you are watching from a data-stream point of view.
 

Kiroy

Marine Biologist
<Bronze Donator>
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if they let me pay 5 bucks a month or so for no ads i'll keep watching, even if it's a few seconds of ads once every hour or so i'll understand that and be fine, but if it's intrusive i'm out

I don't fully blame them because I'd bet i'm in the in the above average user category using ublock, and only giving out my prime sub, which I would have prime anyways. I doubt I've generated one cent of revenue for twitch (besides being a number for valuation and some weak metrics).

That said, these entertainment companies need to walk a fine line. I really only watch twitch as background when i'm doing other shit and I'd have almost zero problems throwing on youtube, or a movie, or finding some other random streaming site to throw up on that 2nd monitor. They start losing viewers they start losing content creators.
 

Malakriss

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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There's always some kind of data check, cookies, flags, scripts, different server or domain fetches, etc that are involved with ads. They may get to the point where you need to install a companion app for an extension to block the ads properly (similar to most video downloaders these days) but it should always be technological possible. This is a game of chicken and convenience, but the more of a pain in the ass these services are the more likely we are to abandon them as opposed to a one time pain in the ass install for an ultra level ad blocker.

Bottom line: I still am not buying any of their shit whether i see the ad or not. It comes down to viewing the actual content without bullshit.
 

Khane

Got something right about marriage
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49d 15h 39m
I wonder how far they will go with this. They already make a boatload of revenue from the streamer subscriptions as it is.
 

amigo

Golden Squire
135
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Trust me, I work in the digital TV business. Ads injected directly into a stream *can* be blocked, and it's not rocket science.One of the products I programmed is processing hundreds of live TV channels 24/7/365 and dumping them out as HLS streams for OTT services, which is what Twitch is using.
Think of it this way... If you have a list of filenames, each representing a 10sec video segment, that are downloaded and played as continuous video by your browser:
rewrwrwr-12345.ts
rewrwrwr-12346.ts
rewrwrwr-12347.ts
rewrwrwr-12348.ts
Can you tell which files contain ads? No, well then you are sol.
How about this one?
rewrwrwr-12345.ts
rewrwrwr-12346.ts
gdfgdfgf-1.ts
gdfgdfgf-2.ts
rewrwrwr-12349.ts
And this is just filenames, there is also mandatory metadata accompanying these filenames, which can tell you a lot more what is going on.
Sure, they can make the whole thing super cryptic so you can't figure out what is an ad and what is not, but that would make it very impractical and inefficient for them. Don't want to get too technical here, so if you want to know more look up HTTP live streaming (HLS) RFC.
 

Malakriss

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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1 - "Horrible naming conventions are the key to the future!" [Millions of lazy programmers cheering in the background]
2 - Technology is released after years of development
3 - Within a week it is defeated by nerds in a basement
 

spronk

FPS noob
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girlfriend reviews (the new thing where a girl talks about what its like watching a game her bf plays) is doing a livestream of The Last of Us starting in 10 mins

 
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Conefed

Trakanon Raider
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There's absolutely nothing I would end up missing from Twitch. It serves as passive entertainment for me while I'm doing other things and could be abandoned without hesitation. It simply isn't worth being subjected to commercials.
but then again, if it's background noise then so is commercials.
 

Pyros

Vyemm Raider
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Trust me, I work in the digital TV business. Ads injected directly into a stream *can* be blocked, and it's not rocket science.One of the products I programmed is processing hundreds of live TV channels 24/7/365 and dumping them out as HLS streams for OTT services, which is what Twitch is using.
Think of it this way... If you have a list of filenames, each representing a 10sec video segment, that are downloaded and played as continuous video by your browser:
rewrwrwr-12345.ts
rewrwrwr-12346.ts
rewrwrwr-12347.ts
rewrwrwr-12348.ts
Can you tell which files contain ads? No, well then you are sol.
How about this one?
rewrwrwr-12345.ts
rewrwrwr-12346.ts
gdfgdfgf-1.ts
gdfgdfgf-2.ts
rewrwrwr-12349.ts
And this is just filenames, there is also mandatory metadata accompanying these filenames, which can tell you a lot more what is going on.
Sure, they can make the whole thing super cryptic so you can't figure out what is an ad and what is not, but that would make it very impractical and inefficient for them. Don't want to get too technical here, so if you want to know more look up HTTP live streaming (HLS) RFC.
Isn't this new thing specifically doing it so it's not that easy by basically masking ads as normal content. That's what I assumed they'd do if they wanted unblockable ads.

And for the delay thing that was mentionned, I don't think they'd do delays, they don't atm either I think? They just play the ad over the stream, if ads play during gameplay that's a problem with the streamer hitting the ad button at the wrong time, so in this case they'd just overwrite the normal feed to put in ads. As long as nobody fucks up and plays ads mid stream and instead keep it for dead segments it'd work fine.

Not saying this will be perfect but I think in theory they can definitely do it by simply embedding ads into the stream replacing whatever was there and having it being exactly the same. It'd require them to have access to the ads on the same servers as the ones they use to broadcast normal stuff so there's no different IP and no different anything. Wouldn't be different than when tournaments run instream ads inbetween games, in theory, I think?

Now if their solution isn't something like that, it'd probably be blocked pretty quick.
 

Folanlron

Lord Nagafen Raider
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The Streamer can set a delay via either twitch, or thru Xsplit/OBS ..(I've never seen twitch actually force a delay though, but who knows..)

As far as there new ad system, there has to be some markers with-in the "ad videos" itself otherwise they can't track ad watch/click-thru traffic.

But I mean how many streamers are even running ads now a days ? Most don't even care anymore sense bits/donations/subs are the drugs.
 
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Crone

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girlfriend reviews (the new thing where a girl talks about what its like watching a game her bf plays) is doing a livestream of The Last of Us starting in 10 mins

They are so good! lol. Pretty awesome new concept. I'd love to hear about how they thought of it.
 

Zindan

Blackwing Lair Raider
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There was a time when my ad blockers weren't working on Twitch and it sucked. I would have a 30sec ad when going to a new channel, and would get ads in the middle of a stream from Twitch (not the streamer). If I were a streamer, I wouldn't be too fond of a Twitch forcing an ad thru my stream whenever Twitch wanted, even midstream.
 

GuardianX

Perpetually Pessimistic
<Bronze Donator>
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And for the delay thing that was mentionned, I don't think they'd do delays, they don't atm either I think? They just play the ad over the stream, if ads play during gameplay that's a problem with the streamer hitting the ad button at the wrong time, so in this case they'd just overwrite the normal feed to put in ads. As long as nobody fucks up and plays ads mid stream and instead keep it for dead segments it'd work fine
So twitch offers a service called Transcription meaning if you stream at 1080P 60FPS and you are a big enough streamer, they will offer people the ability to tune down the stream to 720p through using their transcription service.

The main caveat is that it was traditionally only available to big name streamers because to transcribe anything into multiple formats is expensive CPU wise.

MAYBE they found an easy and "Cheap" way to transcribe ALL streams, if that is the case then your stream can easily be paused and an ad injected without overlay INSIDE the actual stream.

The Streamer can set a delay via either twitch, or thru Xsplit/OBS ..(I've never seen twitch actually force a delay though, but who knows..)
The funny part is twitch explicitly did not want people to delay their streams because of the hardware requirements on their end. I'm guessing they overcame that "Hurdle" a while ago with the infusions of cash that amazon gave.