hodj
Vox Populi Jihadi
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I gotta get my shitposting in early or ill forget to do it with the new distraction in my life
Vanessa's Tranny AMA Blog Thread
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I gotta get my shitposting in early or ill forget to do it with the new distraction in my life
chaos
Buzzfeed Editor
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But every single child undergoing this treatment is having this forced upon them, by definition. They don't have the cognitive ability or reason to understand the totality of what is happening or the capability of accepting responsibility for the potential consequences. The adult they will ultimately become can't go back for a mulligan because their parents or doctors made bad, misinformed choices and gambled away their future. They don't get to self-advocate, they don't get to choose, that is immoral and unethical.
I'm having a hard time finding a medical procedure to compare it to, really. The closest I can get is the old school lobotomies. It's such an important job, to be the advocate for a child and ensure that their best interest is kept in mind at all times.
Vanessa
Uncle Tanya
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LoL, the only thing I really cared about for this thread getting shawed is the inability to make edits to posts... and with my posting style, those quick on-the-fly-edits a mere few minutes after hitting that [POST REPLY] button came in handy
I've come to make real good friends with the preview button.
I'll help you out though since your words are kinda obscured by the quote-in-quote formatting error:
CHAOS SAID: "It is harmful to all kids in that there are irreversible side effects that can have a severe impact on the adult that child will become. Don't pull your "feels" schtick with me while simultaneously glossing over the impact puberty blockers actually have on people who take them. The drugs have physical impact, possibly psychological, and there's absolutely no way to tell if a person would actually benefit from taking them or would be harmed from it, and the subject (the child) has no say at all. It is grotesque.
Add to that, your standards for "gender incongruence" were not exclusive in any sense of the word.
I get what you're saying about the doctors. But it's fantasy. "A team of psychologists?" This is America, people can't afford that shit, and they don't get it. I assume you went through some form of this, did you get a team of highly trained specialists monitoring you around the clock, performing several objective tests? I know with my daughter's mental health struggles, we definitely didn't get anything like that. If a parent is able to get that level of care for their kid, that's great. Barring an actual, objective test to show how treating with puberty blockers would help the child, this is just medical experimentation. On vulnerable children with mental health issues.
It's not my business how people raise their kids in a broader sense. Until the point where it's potentially harming the child, then it becomes my business, and society's business. I try to be compassionate in all things, to be empathetic to people and their struggles. My main interactions around here way back in the day were political, and that's why I stepped away from all that, because the interactions and attitudes are just so ugly, so lacking in any kind of empathy, it's all about sides and teams. There's similar stuff going on here. You can hold the positions simultaneously that we need to support and be compassionate for trans kids and that this treatment is the wrong answer for many different reasons."
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iannis
Musty Nester
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I wouldn't call cocaine a distraction. More like a performance enhancer.
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maskedmelon
Orator of Superfluous Nothings
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I know you had questioned whether or not someone would make their child NOT trans, but I restructured it in my response address gender dysphoria because there is an important point to be be made. Being transgendered (possessing qualities and behavioral tendicies generally associated with while also strongly identifying with the opposite sex) does not demand that one suffer from debilitating dysphoria. When it reaches the point unbearability, that's when you get promoted to "True Tranny," referenced by Vanessa. That's dangerous because it tells individuals that their experiences are false only if they don't chase them into despair.
The current perspective being advanced by "gender specialists," is that dysphoria is like some one way door with transition being the only way out. Certainly their are bound to be a handful of people who are incapable of learning to love themselves and embrace the beauty of their aberrant nature, but operating under the pretense that it is beyond most to do so, is a gross disservice to those who have to deal with this. Happiness doesn't not demand destroying one part of yourself to validate another. Integration should be emphasized much more than it is.
Back to my original question about eliminating dysphoria, there are no negative consequences to that in itself. It is purely a negative experience and eliminating it does not mean eliminating one's transgendered nature. It means integrating it (one's transgendered qualities) with the rest of onself. Asserting that medication/surgical intervention are the only ways out of dysphoria precludes the possibility of integration. Nobody wants to be dysphoric.
I agree with the rest of your sentiments to though. I think self is the presence all those things which shape your life experience and the absence of those which do not. It is ever expanding. The growth from contextualizing and incorporating new experiences, ideas and perspectives is something we should continually strive for.
maskedmelon
Orator of Superfluous Nothings
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Why is this the criteria for determining whether it is ethical or not? There are as many cases when forcing a child to do a thing are is wrong as there are when allowing them to do their own thing is wrong. Allowing one's child to gorge his/herself into obesity is wrong even if s/he loves to eat. The fact that a child enjoys or consents to something, while conditionally relevant can never be held as some sort of litmus for what is right or wrong.
That's not nitpicking. It's the fundamental objection. Also hurrah for NTS!
It's a good thing we have people so well paid to think for us without bias. I am so very thankful this is the world we live in ^.~v
Vanessa
Uncle Tanya
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Sorry Aladain, pulled this gem from the GG/SJW thread; hope you don't mind.So who on earth would vandalize rape shelters?
Trans activism’s latest trick: vandalizing women’s shelters
For trans activists, it makes sense to disembowel a skunk and string it up by its neck — noose-like — to hang it on the door where rape victims will find itspectator.us
Who on earth would vandalize rape shelters you ask? The transgender community of course.
The transgender community hates... HAAAATTTEEEES Terfs. Why? Because Terfs call MtF trannies what they are and it triggers the fuck out of them: Biological Males. Terfs are merely saying, "We need some spaces like rape shelters and battered wife/domestic abuse shelters for us, and only us that doesn't involve ANYTHING with a cock". I support Terfs, if I haven't made that clear in the past.
chaos
I'd agree to your stance a bit more IF they (the doctors and gender clinics or whomever) were trying to put 6 year olds on blockers, hormones or provide surgical intervention to them at that early of an age. I'd be shocked and be making some calls myself. Again, the earliest I've heard of teens being put on hormones are 16. I have NO data that I've looked into about the earliest that they've put kids on puberty blockers. 12 maybe? I honestly don't know, but I hope you see that my stance isn't what the retards here are saying it is that "I want to pump kids full of puberty blockers" I mean, holy shit, that's just the most baseless accusations ever. I've merely tried to explain what these drugs are and what they do, and my ACTUAL stance is looking at the data, looking at the facts, looking at the research and realizing that they HAVE merit for certain highly dysphoric adolescents. THAT'S IT. I'm not advocating shit to anybody... I'm merely NOT an SJW trying to dictate to OTHER parents and doctors what they can and can't do to their own children and patients.Now if you want to demonize me for being a fence sitter and not going to rallies holding up signs saying "Stop the use of puberty blockers" then that's a fair call. But to say I'm pushing for these drugs is utter horseshit perpetuated by these gonzo bitches like Phazael who don't even comprehend the nuance of my posts and just make up whatever false narratives they can about me.
Oh, BTW!!!!!!! Point and laugh at me guys... I'm not going to the Straight Pride Parade
My brother had a mental episode because he ran out of weed and I'm not going up there alone. I'm so bummed out about it... I feel like I'm missing a hella good time up there.- 1
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Have you noticed how there is noone on the forum that shares your opinion on this?
Do you think that is because you are enlightened, or because everyone on the forum is retarded, or both?
You being wrong obviously can't be the case, so I'm going to disregard that option.
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hodj
Vox Populi Jihadi
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Oh, BTW!!!!!!! Point and laugh at me guys... I'm not going to the Straight Pride Parade
We all knew you were full of shit, faking and trolling from the start on that, as well as your trump support and your fake YEC beliefs.
You didnt need to confirm it any more than you already have, we all already know you are completely full of shit
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Ahh, puberty blocking kids age 16 is fine.
Those are minors. They can't vote or drink alcohol, but lets let them decide on something which has a good 40% to suicide later on.
I can't wait until a crack-addict movement starts to demand that children are given freedom of choice.
Sure, it might statistically be the worst thing possible when it comes to their future, but if a kid identifies as a crack user, and some loon of a doctor decides to prescribe it for him, who are we to argue?
Do you know why 16 year olds can't drink? Because its bad for their development, and because they aren't at an age where they can judge how much is good for them.
Have you ever considered any of these things?
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chaos
Buzzfeed Editor
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I'm not trying to demonize you for anything. I'm trying to get you to see it from a different perspective.
Now if you want to demonize me for being a fence sitter and not going to rallies holding up signs saying "Stop the use of puberty blockers" then that's a fair call. But to say I'm pushing for these drugs is utter horseshit perpetuated by these gonzo bitches like Phazael who don't even comprehend the nuance of my posts and just make up whatever false narratives they can about me.
Earlier in the thread I mentioned something about how there's no way this is common practice or knowledge, still believe that. But Lithose pointed out there's some trans person on TV named Jazz who started puberty blockers at 11. There's tons of articles online about 10 year olds being prescribed that stuff. Thing is, it doesn't really matter, that's kind of quibbling over minor points. 10 or 16, the fact is that this is being done to them, they are not making a choice to receive treatment.
That isn't what SJW is. I know the new thing is that basically anything we disagree with we get to label SJW to discredit it. An SJW is a person who engages in identity politics even in the face of opposing facts, a person who values identity over pragmatism, typically characterized by the assertion that identity colors the value of a person's opinion/analysis or their ability to provide input at all. You are characterizing it as "dictate to other parents how to raise their kids" and that's a false equivalence. Children aren't property, a parent can't just do whatever they want with a kid, society protects children even from the whims of their parents when potential harm is involved. That isn't an SJW value, that's a human value.
Vanessa
Uncle Tanya
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Well flip this around into THIS possible scenario and you tell me if THIS is unethical and immoral:
A biological male child, from age 3 to 5 expresses gender incongruent behavior. The parents just watch, accept that children are just kooky and do kooky things and that's that.
From age 5 to 8 the child's gender expression grows as their understanding of gender becomes more complex and this behavior isn't desisting, but growing more pervasive. The parents continue to watch, have more concerns as that perhaps their son is merely a femme gay child, but still hold off on judgments and while they are loving and accepting of their son's behavior, have mounting concerns.
From 8 to 12 the adolescent is now calling themselves their chosen female name, insisting they are a female in a male body, dislike their penis and are talking about the wish to cut off their penis. The parents now reluctantly realize this goes beyond mere femme behavior and there is a real concern that their son is suffering from a mental illness.
From 12 onward puberty has started and the child is now becoming depressed and in fact suicidal because of these horrible changes that are, in their mind, afflicting their body... because girls don't get adam's apples, thick leg hair like Alice the Goon, more musculature than their female peers and the list goes on. The parents are now frustrated and angry, and tell their son that they are NOT a female, never will be, and they need to get over this obsession and refuse to take them to see any specialists whatsoever.
I ask you: Is -this- ethical and moral for the parents to handle their child like this? Because I assure you... I have been in the trans community in the past longer than any of you combined and know that this story is more common that you realize.
You guys just don't know what it's like, and that's okay... I'm here to try to explain. If you disagree; okay. That's your prerogative. Unlike Hodj and Phaz and Zyyz and Punko, I'm not an SJW, so I'm not going to try and force my beliefs on how you raise your kids; I'll just sit on the sidelines, shaking my head at how you are abusing your child by not getting them the professional help they need.
You misunderstood I guess. What I meant is that, for the past 130+ pages, people (myself and the hatertots) have whittled down what is fact and fantasy by nitpicking this topic to death and the 80/20 issue is THE basest question concerning this topic.
I agree that this 80/20 fact is the fundamental objection. People want it to be 100/0, as do I. That is my goal as well, as indicated that I hope that in the future GD can be diagnosable by a simple blood test, but that is reaching for the stars right now. Maybe someday though.
You were owned once almost a year ago.
You were owned yet again earlier this month.
I don't give a toucan's turd what you're interested in; why can't you get that through your thick as lead skull?
You have proven yourself to be nothing more than an obsessive little shit for brains who can't seem to stay out of my thread while simultaneously claiming that this thread sucks, as evidenced below v v
...yet you're now in 3rd place here you lunatic. You are 22nd in Hodj's thread (look it up). Get wrecked (again, and again, and again, and again).
Oh yes, that's right... that's another thing SJW's do btw... make up slander and lies about their opponents. Thanks for reminding me An_Autistic_Hodj_01
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Vanessa
: I appreciate you downvoting my posts within 2 minutes, while not answering a single question.I've avoided the ad hominem and tried to confront you with some of the "strange" notions you have, but you don't seem able to explain them.
chaos
is an amazingly patient person, but you'll not come to an agreement with him either, because you simply won't consider his views. I always predicted the futility of a discussion with you, knowing you are far to far down the rabbit hole.You simply flail your angry words at me, confirming the above.
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View attachment 221171
...yet you're now in 3rd place here you lunatic. You are 22nd in Hodj's thread (look it up). Get wrecked (again, and again, and again, and again).
Oh yes, that's right... that's another thing SJW's do btw... make up slander and lies about their opponents. Thanks for reminding me An_Autistic_Hodj_01
It is true I have posted here a lot.
Here is the reason:
Vanessa
, I find your attitude revolting.
hodj
Vox Populi Jihadi
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It was when
chaos
joined the
Tanoomba
thread and
Tanoomba
proved to even
chaos
, who came to him the same way he's come to
Vanessa
in this thread, that he was unreachable that things really began to hit the tipping point with
Tanoomba
I remember it fondly and yes, this thread is tracking pretty much along the exact same course
Tanoomba
's shaw thread tracked.
Vanessa
is in deep deep denial, but he has been about everything about himself from the get go, hence, you know, tranny.
chaos
joined the
Tanoomba
thread and
Tanoomba
proved to even
chaos
, who came to him the same way he's come to
Vanessa
in this thread, that he was unreachable that things really began to hit the tipping point with
Tanoomba
I remember it fondly and yes, this thread is tracking pretty much along the exact same course
Tanoomba
's shaw thread tracked.
Vanessa
is in deep deep denial, but he has been about everything about himself from the get go, hence, you know, tranny.- 1
Vanessa
Uncle Tanya
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Thankfully society at large find YOUR attitude more revolting.
Must suck being a bigot that can only share their true feelings online and not in society where normal people will see you for the hate-filled monster that you really are.- 1
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