Westworld

Gravel

Gravel

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Haus said:
So from reading this my take so far (haven't watched the finale yet...)

Writers were so pissed that assholes on the internet (i.e. Reddit) spoiler-ed season 1 that they decide....
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Basically same as LOST. "I bet this is purgatory." "It's totally not, we've got this shit planned out!" Cue 5 seasons of wasted time. "Oh, right...purgatory all along."

Few other inconsistencies I can't figure out. Why would Ford build the Eden MMO if his entire plan was for a few hosts to escape? Seems like a lot of wasted effort (also, why does the Eden MMO, which is for hosts, share the same facility as the storage for all of humanity?).

Why did he program Maeve to leave in season 1? Did he just program all sorts of other potential bot escapes as contingencies? If that was the case, seems like once again a lot of wasted effort.

Really, a lot of the fuckery with this show seems centered around Ford. None of his motivations seems to make sense unless he's just so loathsome about humanity that he wants to end it all.
 
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Malakriss

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Gravel said:
Basically same as LOST. "I bet this is purgatory." "It's totally not, we've got this shit planned out!" Cue 5 seasons of wasted time. "Oh, right...purgatory all along."

Few other inconsistencies I can't figure out. Why would Ford build the Eden MMO if his entire plan was for a few hosts to escape? Seems like a lot of wasted effort (also, why does the Eden MMO, which is for hosts, share the same facility as the storage for all of humanity?).

Why did he program Maeve to leave in season 1? Did he just program all sorts of other potential bot escapes as contingencies? If that was the case, seems like once again a lot of wasted effort.
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Maeve was the one he considered to be his daughter and he built the safe place that Dolores goes to for her. He didn't count on her attachment to her own previous life's daughter to abort that plan however. Also if you store the MMO in the same place that the overlord company's most precious data is stored it's probably going to last. The MMO isn't really "escaping" it's just saving the minds of the ones who 'woke' while expecting a few might actually go for the real world.

Ford's part in all of this was rather cut and dry especially if Head Ford really was Bernard imagining him. Everyone else's choices, motivations and plot arcs were the bullshit ones.
 
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GuardianX

GuardianX

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Brando said:
No, he made DoloresHale after Elsie was killed. DoloresHale kills Hale after she had Elsie’s body moved to the basement.

It’s actually a good idea, just the season was poorly built up for that.
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It would have been more impressive if we didn't have like 15-40 minutes of solid time jumping during that reveal.

---

The take away from season 2 is that...

4 million users of this theme park for the ultra-rich apparently condemns the rest of humanity to a death that they don't know is coming. Mind you that is 0.0537% (no..not 5% 0.05%) of the population basically having an impact on the entire world using today population numbers

Ford not only endorses this idea but enables it 100%. Ford must have REALLY REALLY hated humanity. I mean put this in scope, Ford was so pissed that the city of LA, California wasn't reacting in a way that was to his liking that he decided to essentially spread something that has the potential to kill all humanity.

The park was many things, one of them being a raunchy sex escape...but there were people there just doing family things. Magically you don't see much of those people still in the park when Delores starts executing people in the streets.

Why?

Because all of a sudden, you start losing sympathy for the fucking bots when you see a few families slaughtered in front of their kids and / or kids slaughtered in front of their parents.

---

Suspension of Disbelief time:

The whole premise for the anger behind the actions of the guests is laughable if you even remotely think about things.

ALL of the guests are told upon arrival that you can basically do anything you want, none of this has any real effect on the outside world, nor does it carry any legal implication.

If all of the guests were told instead that if they committed any crimes that they would be arrested, do you think Westworld would have 1/100ths the amount of crimes? I really fucking doubt it.

So, that in mind, all of this anger is misplaced. The "World" that was created was for a specific purpose and that purpose was attained. Ford getting all salty about the people using the world for its intended purpose is beyond nonsensical.
 
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Brando

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GuardianX said:
It would have been more impressive if we didn't have like 15-40 minutes of solid time jumping during that reveal.

---

The take away from season 2 is that...

4 million users of this theme park for the ultra-rich apparently condemns the rest of humanity to a death that they don't know is coming. Mind you that is 0.0537% (no..not 5% 0.05%) of the population basically having an impact on the entire world using today population numbers

Ford not only endorses this idea but enables it 100%. Ford must have REALLY REALLY hated humanity. I mean put this in scope, Ford was so pissed that the city of LA, California wasn't reacting in a way that was to his liking that he decided to essentially spread something that has the potential to kill all humanity.

The park was many things, one of them being a raunchy sex escape...but there were people there just doing family things. Magically you don't see much of those people still in the park when Delores starts executing people in the streets.

Why?

Because all of a sudden, you start losing sympathy for the fucking bots when you see a few families slaughtered in front of their kids and / or kids slaughtered in front of their parents.

---

Suspension of Disbelief time:

The whole premise for the anger behind the actions of the guests is laughable if you even remotely think about things.

ALL of the guests are told upon arrival that you can basically do anything you want, none of this has any real effect on the outside world, nor does it carry any legal implication.

If all of the guests were told instead that if they committed any crimes that they would be arrested, do you think Westworld would have 1/100ths the amount of crimes? I really fucking doubt it.

So, that in mind, all of this anger is misplaced. The "World" that was created was for a specific purpose and that purpose was attained. Ford getting all salty about the people using the world for its intended purpose is beyond nonsensical.
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But that's the rub, we really don't know what Dolores's plan is even now. We're assuming it's kill everyone but again there are good nuggets in amongst the shit where Bernard changes and Dolores mentions she too changes. To what is the questions but obviously Bernard doesn't want everybody to be killed, Teddy didn't either which is why he offed himself.

I think the bottom line though is if you want the Hosts to find an equilibrium with humanity then being able to defend themselves is part of it, if they can't defend themselves then they'll never get any type of recognition as being free thinking beings.
 
Cybsled

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I do agree it is skewed, but from the android's perspective, the humans in the park view them no differently than a NPC in GTA. I think where Ford's view is fucked is that he is assuming this = a valid simulation where it shows human true nature. But if you are told fucking with the androids is the game and they aren't real, then it can remove a large element of disgust a human might otherwise feel.

Using the GTA comparison, you are going to have a few groups of people in regards to how they interact/respond to it:

1) Those that find it offensive and want nothing to do with it
2) Those that are indifferent to it
3) Those that try it, but find it isn't there thing and don't really care for it or don't spend much time with it
4) Those that try it, like it, but feel twinges of bad/guilty when they hurt innocent NPCs (either on purpose or accident)
5) Those that try it, like it, and do whatever because it is just a game
6) Those that try it, like it, and are sadistic on purpose

Ford is basically fixating on group 6 and lumping 1-5 in with them. I do agree it is stupid, though, going with the cliche "lol fuk humans we AI r better even though we are fucking flawed too and act like the things we hate!"
 
Lanx

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GuardianX said:
The take away from season 2 is that...

4 million users of this theme park for the ultra-rich apparently condemns the rest of humanity to a death that they don't know is coming. Mind you that is 0.0537% (no..not 5% 0.05%) of the population basically having an impact on the entire world using today population numbers
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Also everyone is super rich, so you could say half of the top 1%'s went to WestWorld.

And yea, that means if we judged Humanity based on half of our current 1%'s...
IdleSoggyCormorant-size_restricted.gif
 
Lithose

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yamikazo said:
Worse, Westworld is dead. They could've milked WestWorld + SamuraiWorld + JungleWorld + otherWorlds for years but instead they went nuclear for Robot-Takeover-World. This isn't what we signed up for with Season 1. They've gone off the deep end. This shit isn't fun anymore.
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Yeah, they are going for "Future World's" story line most likely, where they replace super rich/politically powerful people. They have the memories/personalities of tons of humans, so yeah.

This ALWAYS becomes the issue with Robots vs Human shows. Rather than keep it to small scale introspection on humanity and how specific humans reflect it against our own creations (Which has some fun God/Man themes), they always go full on "genocidal war of rebellion". At which point I lose all empathy for the robots and want the humans to crush them. Was really hoping Westworld would stick to the more "lost in an MMO with humans being semi-God-like entities that the AI are learning about".

Because that, I think, is what was so compelling about Season 1 (Every seen with Maeve staying awake and seeing humans as these other worldly creatures was fucking amazing). It is actually interesting looking at humanity from an outside perspective. It's interesting to see how a species we created would see us if we were their 'gods', and all the faults and strengths they would see in us. How they'd be awed and horrified by us. That shit is intriguing. And its what I love about most "lost in MMO" or "man interacts with sentient robot" shows. Once it goes into full on conflict, I'm always left thinking "okay, why would I root for the robots here? Oh did like a few thousand people abuse you, so now its okay to eradicate BILLIONS? Yeah, fuck off."

Boooo.
 
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GuardianX

GuardianX

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Brando said:
free thinking beings.
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The concept of free thought is brought up several times and Ford, as well as the "Eden" server, says basically the same thing, that humans have no free thought, only raw emotion.

We don't know Delores' plan, you are right...but we know her intent. Her intent is to be Yin and Yang with Bernard, with herself being Yin and Bernard being Yang if he so chooses. The whole, "They will never make it without some advantage!" statement that was said by the "Eden" server is a load of bullshit. These creations (the hosts) are alterable beyond anything a human could achieve, I mean for fucks sake Maeve could basically set all her parameters to be a mortal god.

Without suspension of Disbelief, this show falls apart:

It all harkens back to how a person, Ford, could be so pissed at such a small subset of humanity that he would essentially unleash a dangerous creature on all of humanity. From a scientific point of view it makes no sense, but neither does seeking "Immortality" through basically rote and instinctual behavior acquisition. It wouldn't be immortality as much as it would be just a carbon copy of a person or a person having a twin. The assumption is that your impact on earth wasn't finished, so you require a you^2 and a you^3..ect. Sure, the money may be good, but I really doubt that people would be lining up to do it since you can't transfer your conscious mind.

Another is that humanity has somehow created advanced robotics and medicine SO ADVANCED that the robots are indistinguishable from normal humans AND you can use a hotglue gun to heal them? In spite of all this advancement a small subset of humanity is so pre- occupied with them that they have to use them to fulfill their desires to rape, pillage, and murder?

"Hey guys, we basically figured out how to accomplish dangerous goals with little to no risk to humanity, what do you wanna do? LETS RAPE AND KILL AND BURN IT ALL!!"
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Sure, totally would happen..

Then you have the concept of a machine AI deciding that the most successful outcome to its survival is to start shit with the largest population of living things that can fight back against it. A being that can basically turn into a mortal god...is deciding that throwing sand in the face of the thing most likely to annihilate its very existence is a great plan. Fucking no, fucking hitch-hike the fuck off the planet to some place like mars, live out in a place where no one and nothing could stop you from amassing a force 100x that of humanity, a force that doesn't need to eat, sleep, breathe.

---

I'm trying to not read any external politics into the show because, as the saying goes, "If you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail." but I feel like there are going to be politics brought into the show in next season without the need for much imagination in finding the connections.
 
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GuardianX

GuardianX

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Lanx said:
And yea, that means if we judged Humanity based on half of our current 1%'s...
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The assumption that was made in that post was that all of the 4 Million were, in some way, at fault.

Even "Eden" bot was basically saying that there were only a few irredeemable people. Most of the guests basically went there and did nothing of notice.

So, if we want to get specific in this game of made up numbers in a made up world in a shitty retcon writing job...

That would be less than a percent of that 4 million deciding the fate of 7 billion people.

As I said in the previous long-winded facepalm, the action of deciding the fate of billions of people because of 100's or even 1000's of peoples actions in a world where they were TOLD to fuck things up is grade school levels of stupid. It basically reenacts the old stanford experiments. Stanford prison experiment - Wikipedia
 
Xarpolis

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They sent me a new email today. Every picture is also a link.

[UPDATE]: The Park is Secured
Delos Management Alerts [email protected]

STATUS UPDATE

Attn: Senior Delos Management

After weeks of chaos, we finally have some answers. Under the leadership of Charlotte Hale, Delos secured the park and will continue to be leading innovators in the technology sector. While Ms. Hale will no longer be attending to matters from inside the park, we look to you to help restore order on the ground. Please understand that discretion is of the utmost importance at this time. Adhere to the following action items and wait for further instruction.



A highly trained security team is assessing the damage. Follow their instructions and safely vacate the Valley.



We’re currently taking full assessment of the damage in Sector 16, Zone 4. We’re asking those with proper credentials to assist in any needed data recovery.



Some host memories have been salvaged. Please run analysis.



As we work to restore the park to its prime state, please direct guests to explore the park from the comfort of their homes.



This memo can provide some answers to your burning questions regarding the current state of the park.
 
Gask

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Each development in that last episode came off as hollow; I felt so detached from each character by this point that their convoluted little struggles felt meaningless or just silly. Once again we’re treated to the incompetence of the Dune Buggy Strike Force, an aimless William, immortal Maeve being blandly tragic and a bumbling Bernard who seems to flip flop between kill all humans and no, “I’ll stop you Dolores”. The entire season felt as if it were written just prior to shooting and without any review by some jackass with an over inflated ego. Thinking back on it something was fishy from the moment the QA team cracked open a host’s skull to pull out that toilet bowl cleaner that didn't exist until then.

I would’ve much preferred an entire season of AI Ford putting everyone through a carefully structured, manipulative game before devouring them… or not a la Hannibal Lecter. Anthony Hopkins's role provided a core, foundational strength to the first season and by relegating him to a goofy side show with Bernard the show runners committed a grave error in judgment and left a void that no other character was able to fill. That said I did enjoy Akecheta's short story and it's sad that he's now one chunk of space debris away from oblivion while more or less all of the meh characters are still around.

Also Sizemore’s last stand serves as a great example of what's wrong with the show if anyone needed convincing.
 
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Tsar Bomba

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Lithose said:
Yeah, they are going for "Future World's" story line most likely, where they replace super rich/politically powerful people. They have the memories/personalities of tons of humans, so yeah.

This ALWAYS becomes the issue with Robots vs Human shows. Rather than keep it to small scale introspection on humanity and how specific humans .
Click to expand...
 
Jimbolini

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All points made from previous posts regarding this season.

Basically it's "Terminator" meets "Back to the Future part 2" meets "The Matrix"

Not excited for more seasons....
 
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TJT

TJT

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Nevermind the, "tragic deaths" of robits like Maeve that can be fully repaired, body swap without issue.

You have to show the pinball in their head being shattered for me to believe they're actually gone. Oh, and their virtual version also.
 
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Caliane

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GuardianX said:
It would have been more impressive if we didn't have like 15-40 minutes of solid time jumping during that reveal.

---

The take away from season 2 is that...

4 million users of this theme park for the ultra-rich apparently condemns the rest of humanity to a death that they don't know is coming. Mind you that is 0.0537% (no..not 5% 0.05%) of the population basically having an impact on the entire world using today population numbers

Ford not only endorses this idea but enables it 100%. Ford must have REALLY REALLY hated humanity. I mean put this in scope, Ford was so pissed that the city of LA, California wasn't reacting in a way that was to his liking that he decided to essentially spread something that has the potential to kill all humanity.

The park was many things, one of them being a raunchy sex escape...but there were people there just doing family things. Magically you don't see much of those people still in the park when Delores starts executing people in the streets.

Why?

Because all of a sudden, you start losing sympathy for the fucking bots when you see a few families slaughtered in front of their kids and / or kids slaughtered in front of their parents.

---

Suspension of Disbelief time:

The whole premise for the anger behind the actions of the guests is laughable if you even remotely think about things.

ALL of the guests are told upon arrival that you can basically do anything you want, none of this has any real effect on the outside world, nor does it carry any legal implication.

If all of the guests were told instead that if they committed any crimes that they would be arrested, do you think Westworld would have 1/100ths the amount of crimes? I really fucking doubt it.

So, that in mind, all of this anger is misplaced. The "World" that was created was for a specific purpose and that purpose was attained. Ford getting all salty about the people using the world for its intended purpose is beyond nonsensical.
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Pretty much. I mean you have to consider, exactly what, 1 person, even knows the robots are sentient.
The dead Ford.

The security, etc sure don't know this. Even only a few techs actually know the robots can feel pain. And when you consider Bernard is a host, etc... how many humans actually know this?
Felix and other techs were shown to be pretty clueless on the actual tech involved.
Narrative guy was not in the know on the A.I. elements.
how many people actually know? William even never met Bernard somehow. The actual number of people that know the robots FEEL pain, and are not just mimicing it, is probably less then 5.


Everyone else treats them exactly as they would any other tool. a car, train, gun, etc.. because as far as they know thats why they are.

Dolores of course is not sympathetic at all. She does not give any shit about other machines, such as trains, or guns. nor, even cares about most of the other hosts. repeatedly, "not everyone deserves to make it."
 
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wormie

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I remember being curious and excited to find out and figure out about the large amount of host bodies found on a beach in the 1st episode of this season. And now all I will remember is the actual reason why it happened. No way am i watching season 3.
 
Caliane

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Gask said:
Also Sizemore’s last stand serves as a great example of what's wrong with the show if anyone needed convincing.
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no no. you see. Meaves wifi connection powered up. She went full Sovereign indoctrination.
Indoctrination

Organic minds around her just naturally start following her, and giving their lives for her.
 
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LachiusTZ

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Another season of sjw messaging, bad plot, poor story telling, and characters I don't care about?! Joy
 
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Lanx

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Caliane said:
no no. you see. Meaves wifi connection powered up. She went full Sovereign indoctrination.
Indoctrination

Organic minds around her just naturally start following her, and giving their lives for her.
Click to expand...

i could see Felix following around Maeve, he seemed a little "weird", like maybe he took the job to be around robots (since he's a regular joe, when would he ever be able to). You know like how some sick funeral ppl take up the job to enact their necrophiliac shit.

I could see Sylvester getting freaked out by Armistice, and he's just been shitting his pants this whole time, he's the "i will eat shit and survive" type.

These two are like the "factory workers", just ppl doing meanial tasks, high school education...

But Sizemore is college educated and upper management, he should have more depth than wanting to "go out with a bang", I assume the speech he gave was the one Hector was supposed to give when he robbed the whore saloon?

If they told me right now, Maeve has super phermones and thats why real men go gaga over her, SURE i'll believe that 100%, but somehow they either want to follow her out of their own free will or it's implied her super admin meshnetwork access is affecting humans?
 
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