TrollfaceDeux
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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What vehicle do you drive?
- Thread starter Marmac
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Scoresby
Trakanon Raider
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Had my 2017 Golf-R ECU and TCU tuned for APR Stage-I a few weeks ago. Just under 4s 0-60 now and a helluva lot of fun to drive. I'm contemplating rebuilding the engine with forged internals and going full Stage-III now but not exactly sure I want to deal with the emissions dance every year and also a bit concerned about reliability since I drive 100 miles a day with it for work. It is silly how much performance you can get for ~$60k though.
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what can you do with a manual transmission which a modern automatic one doesn't allow or do better?
nada
automatic is faster, gets better economy, and is easier to sell due to higher demand
this quote sums it up nicely:
Interestingly, the American car market has often expressed more interest in manual performance cars than Europe in recent years. When that first TT RS came to the U.S., as a 2012 model, it was offered only with a manual transmission due to buyer demand. But Audi product planner Anthony Garbis says that interest doesn’t always translate into sales: shoppers tell Audi that they want manual cars, “but then they buy S Tronic anyway.”
when current day M cars get older and start becoming rare, you can be sure noone with the money to spend on them is going to buy the slower manual version because its cool, because being slower isn't cool
manual transmissions got surpassed by automatics in the last few years when it comes to performance, and sales down the road will reflect this new situation
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Frenzied Wombat
Potato del Grande
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Spoken like someone who has never driven a manual. If you had, you'd know it has nothing to do with speed or fuel economy and everything to do with control.
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i'm a euro, my first 20 years were spent driving manual because that is the euro-market
there is nothing a manual offers which a modern automatic transmission doesn't
you seem to be one of those people that think letting the clutch slip is a form of control, why don't you define that more closely
the paddle system which various premium brands offer is directly derived from F1 cars, lol control
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As someone who used to exclusively buy manuals, I'm convinced anyone who says something like this has never driven a modern car with a good automatic. Nowadays an auto is faster and more efficient than a manual, sometimes dramatically better in both categories. Are there still slush boxes out there? Sure, but they're basically relegated to economy cars.
Drive a car with a transmission by ZF (BMW, Audi, maybe some Cadillacs, not sure who else) and try to tell me what advantage a manual offers in terms of "control". These transmissions will shift dramatically faster than you can and in manual mode they won't shift for you no matter what, they'll let you redline until you grenade your engine if that's what you want (although modern cars, manuals included, will probably cut your fuel well before that happens). You'll probably have more control over what gear you're in since you can shift so much faster, there's a good reason why all race cars other than Nascar (which is like going back in time) have long since abandoned the manual.
Again, you can absolutely find a shit auto. Probably 90% of rental cars are shit autos (or worse, CVT). Drive a good auto, though, and you'll forget about manuals like I did.
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Frenzied Wombat
Potato del Grande
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It's not even debatable man. If having a manual and a clutch wasn't a "form of control", then a manual wouldn't leave an auto in the dust when trying to escape a snow bank. Manual is more than changing gears a la "paddles", it's being able to play with the clutch to get varying degrees of grip/torque. You just can't do that with an auto or paddles.
Not to mention it's simply a thousand times more fun and engaging to have to maneuver a shifter and clutch than it is to mindlessly mash a gas peddle. Driving enthusiasts want manuals.
Frenzied Wombat
Potato del Grande
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I have a ZF transmission in my 2018 S5. It's crap, and there are entire threads on the audi forums bitching about the poor throttle response. Again, it's not about shifting speed or efficiency, it's about control and feeling more connected to the car.
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your manual won't do shit for you which i can't do on my automatic
it also won't allow me to wreck the clutch by letting it slip, which you are using as a reason to promote manuals
pro tip: that is bad driving and you aren't supposed to do that, snow or no snow
what do you think happens to the torque when you are "playing" with the clutch? do you have any idea how that works?
dear god
i found a woman on FoH, and its not a tranny!
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Tholan
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Living in the Alp, I've always felt like the automatics were not made for the mountain. Never at the right gear at the right time, etc. Even going sequential made things clumsy and not as smooth as a clutch would've made.
Now the latest car I drove is from 2016 and it's much better.
Frenzied Wombat
Potato del Grande
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Wow, good thing me and half of Canada managed to not to destroy our clutches while maneuvering in snow all those years. Try navigating out of a slippery turn with an auto vs a manual as well.
It's a thousand times more fun to drive than an auto as well (at least outside of traffic). Simply being able to FEEL the engine through the shifter imho makes it worth it alone.
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this isn't up for debate
"playing with the clutch" as you describe it is terrible for your car, i don't care if you and the rest of the ignorant folks do it, its bad from a technical perspective and doesn't bring any benefits correct driving doesn't
i'm sure you can google 'letting clutch slip" and inform yourself on how it actually works
you don't know squat about how cars work though, that much is clear
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Do people drive electrical vehicles there? AWD electrical would seem practical, but battery life and all that make it seem unlikely.
Frenzied Wombat
Potato del Grande
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Dude, you're not slipping, riding, or "playing" with the clutch as a matter of routine-- you do it when you need/want to, and unless you're a retard or driving your car for 20 years, you're not going to blow your clutch.
"Slipping the clutch (sometimes referred to as feathering the clutch) is a term used by automotive enthusiasts to describe when the driver alternately applies and releases the clutch to achieve some movement of the car. It's called slipping because the clutch plate will slip against the flywheel surface when such an action is performed. Slipping the clutch is known to be hard on the clutch surface due to the sliding friction created. "
yeah fuck those "automotive enthusiasts", they obviously don't know what the fuck they're talking about (being enthusiasts and all) and are obviously enthusiastic because the purpose is to destroy the clutch rather than give occasional control when needed.
I've driven manuals for 25 years, and have never had clutch problems, riding/slipping the clutch whenever I felt necessary.
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Bad throttle response isn't going to be corrected by using a slower transmission. If your S5 has poor throttle response, it's due to bad tuning by Audi. I have an S7 and my throttle response is just fine, it would not surprise me if Audi didn't take their time tuning the engine correctly on the S5
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Tholan
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Frenzied Wombat
Potato del Grande
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What year is your S7? It seems that Audi has lots of complaints in the 2018-2019 model year for the S series that use the ZF. Their A series uses the DSG and doesn't have the problem. In fact, I'm driving an A5 loaner right now as my S5 is in the shop on the 3rd attempt to fix buzzing speakers, and imho the A5 tranny has smoother (but slower) acceleration and better low end throttle response than my S5.
Oh yeah, and the "D" drive mode is a joke. Pedal feels like mush and you wait 2 seconds to get power to the wheels.
Honestly, if I could get my 2014 S4 manual back, I would. Loved that car far more than my new S5.
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correct, otherwise it would say "automotive professionals"
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