Wildstar Launch Thread - Server: Stormtalon | Faction: Dominion

Srathor_sl said:

Even if the game is a disappointment to people here, I am buying it for the enjoyment I get out of the devspeaks and the character intros. And I seriously doubt people that are as clued in as these guys are going to make a crap game that does not entertain more than some of the drivel put out by non mmo developers.

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The unfortunate truth of most projects is that once the games goes gold half of them or at least their workforce is let go and their budget is slashed down to 25%. I'm sure they'll still do the best they can then but it is not in their hands how much of their long term goals they can realize. And the people assigning the budget dont give a rats ass about the pre-release hype dev diaries.

Cantatus_sl said:

And while their boss CC system looks to be similar toDefiantfrom GW2, I hope it works better. GW2 always felt like you could just spam CC on bosses and sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't. There never really felt to be any strategy to it.

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GW2's CC system suffers greatly from clueless newbs facerolling their keyboard, that's all. For those that dont know it, mobs that arent flat-out perma-immune have a buff with charges that you work down with CC (which gets nullified), once that is gone he is suspectible to CC and getting CCed returns the immunity buff. It's very managable and and requires coordination within the group. In Pugs forget it, even in decent groups it works but requires attention from everyone, not just the player doing CC, and in non-instanced content it's straight-out impossible to control because 'someone' will use all buttons as they come off cooldown. In theory its a good system if you only play with good players, but who does.

The video was pretty good (dat chua), but their system will need a lot of balancing comes PvP.

Quaid_sl said:

They chose to go subscription eh? Crazy

That's FF14, TESO, and now Wildstar

I have to admit, this fact means I won't be playing any of them. Not just because they are B2P, I found FF14 super boring, TESO's combat looks like a nightmare to me, and well, Wildstar just doesn't do it for me. It's not like I can't afford it either. I drop serious coin in micro transactions if they are interesting. I've dropped $200 on vanguard this year alone. It's just, what are they offering that is so compelling when compared to F2P alternatives? Or, dare I say it, WOW?

Is this a smart decision for a new IP? I wonder what their development costs were.

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I agree with all your points, Quaid, but to be fair they can always swap to a F2P scheme in the future. They can't really go from F2P to a sub model.

I think Wildstar will be a polished and fun game. I think it will have some nice upgrades from WOW. The question is will it draw a big chunk of WOWs userbase, as that seems to me to be what they are targeting. I don't have an initial hook that is selling me on Wildstar. The combat has a nice action upgrade, but it's still at it's core derivative. It's still a theme park setting with a lot of the same design decisions as previous games. They are making a 'better' game, but are the upgrades enough?

Almost none of my MMO gamer friends know anything about Wildstar. I've chatted with a few, and they look at the game, and pretty much say 'Oh, a WOW clone. Not really interested'. I think that'll be a tough stigma to overcome for Carbine. Couple the lack of name power with the fact WOW is starting to burn money to bring players back, and Trion should up their game with Hartsman back and remains a very polished game, as well as FF14s staying power with it's legacy fans, and I'd guess it's going to be a tough slog for a new sub based IP.

This is all I'm saying... What's their hook? Their advantage?

They have now announced a B2P model and moved their launch window to spring 2014. They will be in direct competition with FF14, TESO, a RIFT expansion, a WoW expansion, Archeage, EQN:L, and maybe even EQN itself in Q3/Q4. Looking at that landscape, if I were Carbine, I'd be shitting myself... But hey, you're right, they can always switch to F2P down the road, but wouldn't it create more buzz/draw if it were F2P from launch?

A cynic would say starting with a sub and pulling your long-planned F2P system out of the hat after 6 months earns you $15 x 6 x 1-3mill. More money is never a bad thing, and you still get the F2P monies after scalping the suckers that would never touch a F2P for 6 months. I'm a more optimistic person though so I doubt they already plan on it.

No offense man, but that's a pretty out of date opinion...

Some great games right now are F2P and have been from launch... Dota 2, TRIBES: Ascend, Neverwinter, SMITE, League of Legends, Path of Exile, Planetside 2...

Not accurate at all these days

What does it matter if they are MMOs or not? My point is, subscription model is not an indicator of quality. In fact, I can make a pretty extensive list of MMORPGs that launched with a monthly sub that are absolutely terrible. So I'm not really sure what your argument is here...

Quaid_sl said:

No offense man, but that's a pretty out of date opinion...

Some great games right now are F2P and have been from launch... Dota 2, TRIBES: Ascend, Neverwinter, SMITE, League of Legends, Path of Exile, Planetside 2...

Not accurate at all these days

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Yourgreat games since launchlist would be debatable : Tribes : Ascend, Smite, Planetside 2 servers are dry deserts right now and Path Of Exile hasn't launched yet.

Bondurant_sl said:

Yourgreat games since launchlist would be debatable : Tribes : Ascend, Smite, Planetside 2 servers are dry deserts right now and Path Of Exile hasn't launched yet.

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Popularity is also not an indicator of quality.

Bondurant_sl said:

Yourgreat games since launchlist would be debatable : Tribes : Ascend, Smite, Planetside 2 servers are dry deserts right now and Path Of Exile hasn't launched yet.

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Tribes and Smite are dead because HiRez are a fucking shit studio. For one, they're killing off T:A and wont' sell the rights and they won't release any mod tools STILL. They are supposed to shut down master servers sometime soon. Smite will probably follow suit in about a year.

Planetside 2 has quite a lot of people on it though?

Anyways back to the thread; I don't mind the Pay model too much but I'll have to see more of the game. Considering they're pushing it back even further is fantastic because they may even have more shit that interests me. FF14 seems alright but I wouldn't pay monthly for it. I think it just comes down to testing the game to see if I want to pay or not.

mkopec_sl said:

Pay model is infinitely better than F2P or even B2P. Unless youre a scrub that cannot afford a game, or a scrub company which cannot make a game that people want to pay for. Everything that the game offers should be gotten in game using in game meas, rather than cash shop or some other bullshit.

Most games these days have open betas to try them out so there is no excuse.

Now the price itself can be disputed, Maybe the montly fee needs to be droped a bit in order to justify it today, but fuck cash shops, fuck hamstrung features because of cash shops.

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^^ this.

mkopec_sl said:

Pay model is infinitely better than F2P or even B2P. Unless youre a scrub that cannot afford a game, or a scrub company which cannot make a game that people want to pay for. Everything that the game offers should be gotten in game using in game meas, rather than cash shop or some other bullshit.

Most games these days have open betas to try them out so there is no excuse.

Now the price itself can be disputed, Maybe the montly fee needs to be droped a bit in order to justify it today, but fuck cash shops, fuck hamstrung features because of cash shops.

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Agreed

In an ideal world I would prefer the subscription model, but in the last 5+ years no game has been good enough (time intensive enough, really) to justify it. Yea it might have been the case 7 or 9 or 11 years ago (not to mention that back then bandwidth was actually a cost factor for the MMOs). But really how many *years* are we going to say I prefer a sub because it implies at least a modest amount of effort to make a good, consumer-oriented product. That hasnt been the case for half a dozen years. I mean I still *want* it to be the case, but it just isnt. The majority of sub games that released in the last 5 years are just as shitty as the F2P games, and go F2P within the year anyway.

That said, I am optimistic this game can at least keep up with say bi-monthly updates the size of a wow content patch (new area with quests, all leading to a new group+raid dungeon, some misc shit like path content). I would consider that worth the effective $30 per patch (consider that in relation to expansion prices and volume though... whoa). Patches with the effective price of a new AAA game (4-5 months per patch = $60-75) would be "not worth the money" in todays market for me unless I really love the game. And I'm not alone in that if you look at WoW and how people resub for expansions/patches, max them in that one month then quit (effectively valuing that patch as $15).

^ This