Wildstar Launch Thread - Server: Stormtalon | Faction: Dominion

moonarchia

moonarchia

The Scientific Shitlord
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One thing wow did a little bit of in Cata that they should really expand on is quests that start at specific places or from killing specific mobs. Use hubs to get people to places, then let the places pile the quests on. Maybe use some of those to bread crumb the next hub. It would make exploration more meaningful.
 
Bondurant

Bondurant

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Malakriss_sl said:
Why do you bash a game that hasn't even shown it's core gameplay in beta and is nowhere near release?
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Probably because Wildstar combat gameplay is pretty bad ; there is no need to wait for raids and warplots since they'll be tainted by bad combat gameplay. Also I wouldn't call "nowhere near release" a game which is planned to be released in 2-4 months.
 
Cinge

Cinge

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Odd, I think combat is one of the things they did right. Class depth could be worked on, but the actual combat is fine. Below Tera but above gw2.

Also I would wager on it being more like 4+ months, if it was anything less it would be announced. I'd guess May/June time frame.

@Faddor You are about a year late with the "OMG IT LOOKS LIKE WoW".
 
Xexx

Xexx

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Bondurant_sl said:
Probably because Wildstar combat gameplay is pretty bad ; there is no need to wait for raids and warplots since they'll be tainted by bad combat gameplay. Also I wouldn't call "nowhere near release" a game which is planned to be released in 2-4 months.
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Kind of inclined to agree with this, however the fact that i feel like im moonwalking across the planet is annoying too.
 
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Sithro

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Hrm, I've found the combat to be pretty fun. Yeah, it could use some more depth. But it's responsive, and definitely enjoyable. But that's just me I guess.
 
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sike

Silver Knight of the Realm
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A little bemused by the combat criticism too. Seems like the real plus of the game to me...
 
Bondurant

Bondurant

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Wildstar combat gameplay problem is they basically traded action for depth. In Wildstar any fight's climax is to interrupt your target's cast and then burst it to the ground. Dodging telegraphs is meaningless and most of the time it will take you a lot less time killing your target by interrupt / burst than dodging his attacks / telegraphs. Anything besides interrupt / burst is gimmickal at best. Most skills don't interact between themselves, some skills are absolutely useless at all and are only here to fill the "every class has 10 DPS / 10 Heal / 10 CC skills" pattern and some animations are awful and feel like you're hitting your target with a pillow. Add the LAS system on it, a quite artificial way of forcing players to "commit", to make "meaningful" choices which is pretty much retarded since you can't choice to use all the skills, the game only allows 8 of them. I want to have a very situational skill in my actionbar, a skill I'll use maybe 1 time / hour, can I make this choice ? Fuck you very much my friend, here you pick 8 of them and if you want to play with other skills, make more action sets.

It's quite dumb especially with min/maxing and everyone and their grandmother ending up with the same skills. LAS system is basically like they didn't take time to go creative about combat depth and instead put limits on how many skills you can interact with at once to lure people into commitment. There is no dynamism when the pinnacle of your fight is to sit there and wait for your target to cast stuff. There is no fun when you have 30 skills but can't use more than 8 at once. Wildstar gameplay feels like WoW gameplay with a chastity belt. And I mean it. I don't really hate the game overall, I like lore, I don't mind cartoon graphics and some classes / races are fun. For a theme park MMOs with raids and instanced PvP, I don't think it's bad. But when one of the game's core elements, combat gameplay, is bad, it pretty much rottens the whole game. You know combat gameplay is bad when killing mobs feels actually less fun than go working.
 
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asfastasican_sl

shitlord
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I think there's a handful of people that want something similar to WoW, but not WoW. As if to say they want a different universe with similar 3rd person gameplay. It doesn't have to be amazing or be balanced. They arent playing another mmo currently and they are sitting there bored as hell.

The mmo genre is kinda beat and worn out. No big studio out there has the hunger or passion to make another WoW. You guys are talking about gameplay design concepts from a 10 year old mmo. Just sit there and think about that for a moment. You should just make peace with yourselves and just move onto another genre. Wildstar isn't perfect but i think it's a ton more polished than ESO.

I went back last december to EQ1 for a few months and had a good time making a lv 100 monk from stratch. If you guys don't want to return to an older mmo and don't find yourself enjoying the new generation games from other genres then its probably time to go find another hobby in your old age. Shit, other games are just more fun. For me, a game like Dota 2 is more involved than other mmo's and the replayability is been higher for an entire decade. Plus it's an spectator sport and an esport. If you dont like twitch gameplay though, there are other great games out there.

I'll still take a key to try this game with awful classes now. It's just a fucking game afterall.
 
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Sithro

Molten Core Raider
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Bondurant_sl said:
Wildstar combat gameplay problem is they basically traded action for depth. In Wildstar any fight's climax is to interrupt your target's cast and then burst it to the ground. Dodging telegraphs is meaningless and most of the time it will take you a lot less time killing your target by interrupt / burst than dodging his attacks / telegraphs. Anything besides interrupt / burst is gimmickal at best. Most skills don't interact between themselves, some skills are absolutely useless at all and are only here to fill the "every class has 10 DPS / 10 Heal / 10 CC skills" pattern and some animations are awful and feel like you're hitting your target with a pillow. Add the LAS system on it, a quite artificial way of forcing players to "commit", to make "meaningful" choices which is pretty much retarded since you can't choice to use all the skills, the game only allows 8 of them. I want to have a very situational skill in my actionbar, a skill I'll use maybe 1 time / hour, can I make this choice ? Fuck you very much my friend, here you pick 8 of them and if you want to play with other skills, make more action sets.

It's quite dumb especially with min/maxing and everyone and their grandmother ending up with the same skills. LAS system is basically like they didn't take time to go creative about combat depth and instead put limits on how many skills you can interact with at once to lure people into commitment. There is no dynamism when the pinnacle of your fight is to sit there and wait for your target to cast stuff. There is no fun when you have 30 skills but can't use more than 8 at once. Wildstar gameplay feels like WoW gameplay with a chastity belt. And I mean it. I don't really hate the game overall, I like lore, I don't mind cartoon graphics and some classes / races are fun. For a theme park MMOs with raids and instanced PvP, I don't think it's bad. But when one of the game's core elements, combat gameplay, is bad, it pretty much rottens the whole game. You know combat gameplay is bad when killing mobs feels actually less fun than go working.
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What would you reccomend they change to make it better, then? Not to say you're wrong, there's a lot of dodging and shit. But what do you think they could do to fix those issues?

By the way guys, I thought I'd mentioned, but Gamestop has the release date listed as 7/02/14. So the beta might go on for a while. I hope so anyway.
 
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Droigan

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Bondurant_sl said:
There is no fun when you have 30 skills but can't use more than 8 at once.
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Not sure I agree with that. I had way more spells in Everquest than 30, but I could only use 8 there too. And the "wimps" used one of those slots constantly for "gate", while if you were... well... crazy/stupid, you might try to solo and scribe another spell there instead which you instantly regretted the moment you started a train to zone and didn't have time to sit down and memorize gate.

Limiting your skills isn't necessarily bad, unless the skill given can be parsed down to "these are obviously the best skills" which will turn every spec into the same one because if not you will be gimped. That would ruin any sort of "oh look at our customization" part which they showed in the last video.

Being able to use 30 skills at once is ridiculous, and fits into what I would call the wow mentality. Everything should be accessible to everyone all the time.
 
Bondurant

Bondurant

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Sithro_sl said:
What would you reccomend they change to make it better, then? Not to say you're wrong, there's a lot of dodging and shit. But what do you think they could do to fix those issues?
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I don't know, really. At the moment, in my opinion Wildstar has the same game features than WoW with inferior combat gameplay. Not sure what you can work with that.
 
Cinge

Cinge

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Bondurant_sl said:
Wildstar combat gameplay problem is they basically traded action for depth. In Wildstar any fight's climax is to interrupt your target's cast and then burst it to the ground. Dodging telegraphs is meaningless and most of the time it will take you a lot less time killing your target by interrupt / burst than dodging his attacks / telegraphs. Anything besides interrupt / burst is gimmickal at best.
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For basic mobs yeah you interrupt to get the dmg bonus then burn down. Any kind of mob that last longer then the stun though and GL just sitting in telegraphs while you dps, especially when it comes to group mobs. Dunno feels like any action combat game, hell feels like any combat at all.

Otherwise you sound very upset you can only use 8 skills at once. Not to be rude, but better get used to it, games are all about small limited abilities from a "pool" these days. No one wants to go back to WoW and having 2-3 hotbars of stuff.

Bondurant_sl said:
... I want to have a very situational skill in my actionbar, a skill I'll use maybe 1 time / hour, ...
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I think you are a very small minority on this wish.
 
mkopec

mkopec

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I agree, fuck that type of playstyle. Im sick of rotations and how fast you can click 1-9 and shift-1-9 in a specific order over and over. Give me slower more tactical combat, where I play the game not my keyboard.
 
Bondurant

Bondurant

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Cinge_sl said:
For basic mobs yeah you interrupt to get the dmg bonus then burn down. Any kind of mob that last longer then the stun though and GL just sitting in telegraphs while you dps, especially when it comes to group mobs. Dunno feels like any action combat game, hell feels like any combat at all.
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Lvl 36 Spellslinger (Arcane Shock + Gate) and lvl 27 Esper (Crush + Shockwave) would disagree, I can most of the time kill packs of ~3 mobs during CCs. Clever use of Spell Surge and Psi points is of course needed.

Cinge_sl said:
Otherwise you sound very upset you can only use 8 skills at once. Not to be rude, but better get used to it, games are all about small limited abilities from a "pool" these days. No one wants to go back to WoW and having 2-3 hotbars of stuff.
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I'm not very upset, I was just answering to someone's question. I just find it dumb.

Cinge_sl said:
I think you are a very small minority on this wish.
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I don't think I am, since last LAS system complaining thread was +20 pages.
 
Xevy

Xevy

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I love the dudes who come in every 50 posts saying "WOW Watched a video it's just world of warcraft, guyz. Gonna be so bad." It's like clockwork.
 
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Droigan

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Bondurant_sl said:
Lvl 36 Spellslinger (Arcane Shock + Gate) and lvl 27 Esper (Crush + Shockwave) would disagree, I can most of the time kill packs of ~3 mobs during CCs. Clever use of Spell Surge and Psi points is of course needed.



I'm not very upset, I was just answering to someone's question. I just find it dumb.



I don't think I am, since last LAS system complaining thread was +20 pages.
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So going by that mentality, do you then also think that more in depth rpgs (rarely a feature in mmos) should give all weapons the same skills? Item features such as "slashing" "crushing" "piercing", are all attributed to different types of weapons who are more effective on different types of mobs (skeletons = crush, humanoids = slash, etc). This then requires you to change weapons on different mobs to be the most effective. Removing those things makes it so that the type of weapon is pretty much pointless, and you will only go by increased dps, as that will then be a static feature, doing the same amount on all mobs.

By having different skills and resistances, you add versatility and a need to change to the world around you. One type of mob is not the same as the other type of mob. Having 8 skills, featuring mobs that have different resists, makes your playstyle more diverse as well as add a tad more danger to the world (suddenly you are not able to do the same skills to kill mobs that you have been doing all the time).

Sure, it is easier and more convenient to let you use all skills at once, it is easier to set all mobs to the same resists, removing weapon differences, but.... does that really make it a better game? It sure will be simpler, but better? I ran cursing my lack of gate many a time in South Karanas getting aggroed by a cyclops while camping the gnolls. Higher dps, slightly less survivability. Removing the spell limit would have removed any and all of that type of tactical choice or danger associated with it.
 
Cinge

Cinge

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Bondurant_sl said:
I don't think I am, since last LAS system complaining thread was +20 pages.
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I haven't read it, but 20+ pages isn't a lot especially if you went to look at post diveristy and its probably the same 10-20 people talking in circles.

The LAS system isn't going to go away nor are they going to allow 20-30 abilities useable at anytime. It's part of the whole design and core of the game. At most I could see them doing 10 combat abilities but anything past that will never happen. There are parts of the game that just will not change and some people are just not going to like it(LAS, graphics, action style combat etc).
 
Bondurant

Bondurant

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No, as an example I like how Guild Wars 2 take advantages of weapon choices, like equipping an axe gives skills while equipping a sword gives another. In Wildstar most weapons are just stats slots, they don't give anything besides stats.
 
Bondurant

Bondurant

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Cinge_sl said:
I haven't read it, but 20+ pages isn't a lot especially if you went to look at post diveristy and its probably the same 10-20 people talking in circles.

The LAS system isn't going to go away nor are they going to allow 20-30 abilities useable at anytime. It's part of the whole design and core of the game. At most I could see them doing 10 combat abilities but anything past that will never happen. There are parts of the game that just will not change and some people are just not going to like it(LAS, graphics, action style combat etc).
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That thread wasn't at all how you describe it. Also I said I don't like it, I'm not trying to make them change it since I'm perfectly aware they won't change it, especially a few months before release. It's just my opinion, I'm not funding a crusade against it.
 
Nija

Nija

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I have a 12 year old nephew who is about done with WoW and really wants to try this if anyone has a key available. Looks like this is the next stop for him and his friends.
 
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