Wildstar Launch Thread - Server: Stormtalon | Faction: Dominion

Mr Creed · Apr 29, 2013

TecKnoe_sl said:
idk i know i didnt game EQ/WoW like i did to just dump it and move on a few months later.

I played Star wars for a few months also, i enjoyed it but like xzi does not discount the fact the game was a ghost town and a major let down to the majority of players.

I dont think MMOs are built to be one and done after a few months,yeah expansions basically mean you need to re-gearbut i dont think id put all the time and shit into it knowing in 3 months it was going to shit the bed.

The bolded part - is that really required or the only way to do expansions? I mean it was "interesting" when BC came out and I threw away everything I had worn before for a clown suit of mismatched greens, just to restart the item grind from there. And I see the obvious goal of getting new/returning players to the max tier asap. But with hindsight, I dont like it. I would be interested in knowing if Wildstar has this point on their "copy WoW because it works" checklist or on the "we can do it different/better" checklist.

Agraza · Apr 29, 2013

I liked in EQ that raiders didn't replace their high end raid gear until they got new raid gear in each expansion. I don't see why someone with 5.4 (WoW) or w/e quality raid gear should have to upgrade before the new tier of entry raids. I'd slow down the item reset to just that. Everyone else is looking forward to getting new shit, but those guys have the best shit. Having that last tier as future-proof would give that content lasting power and those who finish it additional prestige.

Now I've heard this isn't as bad anymore, but in WoW they had moved to gear resets per content patch during LK/Cata, and that was way over the line. It deprives the playerbase of large swaths of content because MUCH better gear is available with similar time investment, and it forces the devs to develop content faster and/or of lower quality to keep up with the escalating boredom of the players.

Just make whatever the best non-raid gear in the new xpac roughly equivalent (sans synergy) to the best old raid gear and tune content around that level of growth. Gear resets should only occur when level increases are given, and they shouldn't tread on the best gear in the game.

Caeden · Apr 29, 2013

Swtors newest xpac was like a hybrid between eq and tbc. I liked it. Blizz and the wildstar guys should err on that side. Relevancy over many tiers makes itemization interesting. I vaguely remember gear in tbc raids continuing to be interesting because some items (dragonspine trophy) were interesting up through sunwell.

xzi · Apr 29, 2013

I don't mind the gear grind that much, but I understand why people hate it. However, if it's shit like when BC released where you're replacing tier 3 by level 63 (depending on class/spec and if you wanted your set bonus).. that shit was a little obnoxious. The gigantic stat jumps they make every expansion is getting out of hand really.

Troll_sl · Apr 29, 2013

But... but... +BETTERER!

Golgotha_sl · Apr 30, 2013

On a different note, anyone have any idea what they are doing for pricing on this? Ive seen some speculate that its a F2P game, but with everything that it has, it really seems like they would be going Subscription based.

Cantatus · Apr 30, 2013

I don't think they've given any indication yet what sort of pricing model they'll be going for. Considering they do talk about having on-going story content, I'm anticipating a GW2 type model where the subscription is supplanted by paying for additional content. I could really see them doing well with that considering there are a lot of people that would likely pay for unique items for their houses.

DMK_sl · Apr 30, 2013

I'd say subscription to be honest. Just get the feeling they will go that route after how they respond whenever they are asked about payment models.

xzi · Apr 30, 2013

They haven't answered it at all yet. I wouldn't even mind a few dollar subscription or a GW2 style either. Who says it even has to be 15 a month if it's subscription though, they could do both a shop with cosmetics only and a sub, who knows.

Mr Creed · Apr 30, 2013

I believe a shop is gonna be in every game from here on out. Cant even name one of the top of my head that doesnt have a cash shop for at last some gimmicks and cosmetics.

I would like some devs to take a critical look at the $15 model. I think its outdated really because no game delivers $15 a month of value consistently. I'd probably still be paying for WoW if it was $5-7. The $15 dont sound that much but after having a quarterly charge a few times in a row without playing and realizing I didnt even log in for over half a year and still paid the price of a full new game made me cancel. I wouldnt have canceled if it was $20 per quarter I think.

Tarrant · Apr 30, 2013

Mr Creed_sl said:
I believe a shop is gonna be in every game from here on out. Cant even name one of the top of my head that doesnt have a cash shop for at last some gimmicks and cosmetics.

I would like some devs to take a critical look at the $15 model. I think its outdated really because no game delivers $15 a month of value consistently. I'd probably still be paying for WoW if it was $5-7. The $15 dont sound that much but after having a quarterly charge a few times in a row without playing and realizing I didnt even log in for over half a year and still paid the price of a full new game made me cancel. I wouldnt have canceled if it was $20 per quarter I think.

"Hai guyz, you should charge less because this is in the gray zone. If it was less and I let myself get billed a few times, no big deal. If it was more I would probably be motivated to cancel but at the $15 I'm not motivated enough to stop you from billing me for a game I'm not playing."

Post was a joke I'm sure, good stuff.

xzi · Apr 30, 2013

Well I mean, I don't know how MOP is but in Cata, 15$ a month was over charging in my opinion.

Who even says it has to be 15 though, it's not a law that you're not allowed to make it cheaper if your game so wished.

Dom_sl · Apr 30, 2013

The laws of the investors says otherwise. It's one thing to sell them on a different revenue method (f2p) but a completely different bag of chips when trying to convince them that the product shouldn't go with the industry standard when it comes to sub fees.

Delly · Apr 30, 2013

No idea why no one has tried a cheaper sub with a cosmetic cash shop. You'd think investors would see the success with the pay shop. Seems like it would be a great mix of guaranteed money and a shop, which is most likely guaranteed money if they do not half ass it.

Do $10 a month and provide a cheaper plan if you pay more up front. Hard for me to swallow 100+ dollars if I cannot guarantee I'll be playing, but 2 digits(<100) is always sexier than 3 digits.

Dom_sl · Apr 30, 2013

The cash shop isn't just a ways to make money, it's a way to make the money you lose by being F2P which in turn allows you to get the people that would not pay a sub, or a sub for a second MMO. By having both a sub and a cash shop: you lose that advantage and have fewer customers for your shop, not to mention adding a degree of confusion to the buying experience. Both can be done, but I think it's reserved for successful games that add a shop during the lifespan of the game ( wow) or a game that offers a sub for bonuses ( ps2 etc) but does not require one.

Also keep in mind that the difference between 5 bucks and 15 bucks is rather small in many consumer's minds. Those that balk at the idea of paying 15 will likely feel the same about 5 as it's more of a choice made on principles.

Oh and a few games that tried both (normal sub free though) that comes to mind are STO and Secret World. Both simply couldn't pay the bills with the few stubs, but seemingly did rather well when focusing on one model.

Kirun · Apr 30, 2013

I honestly think my days of playing non F2P MMOs are over. The box cost is bad enough. However, when you also throw in a monthly sub on a game which usually only lasts 2-3 months, it's ridiculous that you're basically paying 15-30$ in "access" fees, to finish seeing whatever content you couldn't quite make it to in the free month, simply because you aren't a neckbeard.

Delly · Apr 30, 2013

Dom_sl said:
Also keep in mind that the difference between 5 bucks and 15 bucks is rather small in many consumer's minds. Those that balk at the idea of paying 15 will likely feel the same about 5 as it's more of a choice made on principles.

I completely disagree otherwise items in stores like Walmart would have stayed $3.00 instead of changing to $2.99. Smaller amounts completely do matter. I know that if I see 1 digit like $5 - $9 I am more likely to buy something versus 2 digit items like $10+. I can only imagine what people who are compulsive buyers or just wasteful with their money think when they see those numbers.

I do agree that you would lose customers for your shop if you're not F2P, but if they know they are making a good game then they shouldn't sweat it. Everyone seems to be trying new pay systems lately, whats a small sub and shop going to do? They'll just go F2P after the initial diehard fans pay for a few months and then rewards them with SHINY OBJECT ARMOR+++++ for being loyal fans and everyone will be happy.

Honestly either way, I'll be playing Wildstar. I really wanted to swear off MMOs but this just looks too juicy to pass up. Luckily I'll go in expecting to be disappointed as usual, so it can only get better!

Xevy · Apr 30, 2013

I think a GOOD game could pull off box cost +$5 a month with a store for cosmetics. Why $5? This isn't an arbitrary number like some are suggesting, but it means you'd be paying $60 for a year. That's a console game. If they added content or kept your interest I'm sure people wouldn't have trouble essentially re-upping the game every year.

DMK_sl · Apr 30, 2013

Um WoW is 15 bucks + has cosmetic items for sales. Every game will have a shop now it's too much of a money maker not too.

Cantatus · Apr 30, 2013

Dom_sl said:
The laws of the investors says otherwise. It's one thing to sell them on a different revenue method (f2p) but a completely different bag of chips when trying to convince them that the product shouldn't go with the industry standard when it comes to sub fees.

I don't know. If anything, now is probably the best time to go to investors and convince them of trying something new. The $15-a-month subscription method has basically died. To my knowledge, there hasn't been an MMO since WoW has released that has been able to subsist entirely on subscriptions, most having moved to some F2P model, while retaining subscriptions as a "premium." MMOs just seem to be needlessly flailing between these two models when there are many other options that have yet to be tried.

Wildstar Launch Thread - Server: Stormtalon | Faction: Dominion

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