Wildstar Launch Thread - Server: Stormtalon | Faction: Dominion

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
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276
Why is there a big discussion about this anyway? One of you saying let them zerg it but hide the good rewards behind a skill-barrier, the other is saying put the skill-barrier at the entrance (by virtue of the player limit). That isnt different enough for all the hate that's being spewed. Your grand visual rewards or above-average-power would be in the "done it with 40 in less then 15 minutes" chest that the scrubs dont get. All they get is the equivalent to the trash drops that you get from the first 3 MC bosses, but no Ragnaros loot (Or Vindi BPs but no AoW sword, or whatever your prefered example, I'm sure you can figure it out).

I still see problems there with the over-scripted content that's more dance dance revolution and less hit them with your sword until they die. I'm not sure if you can do without any hard numbers limit in such an environment, but you sure can relax it a bit. Enough to allow people to bring their casual friend the one time per month he can make it.
 

Skanda

I'm Amod too!
6,662
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I'm actually saying just let it be equal. What one guild can do with 35 let another do with 80. I think the entire raid game needs to be torn apart and rebuilt from scratch. We got rid of EQ's problems only to introduce an entirely new set of problems that are every bit as onerous as what came before.
 

Gecko_sl

shitlord
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0
It would be refreshing to see a dungeon where, for once, you never lay a hand on the boss. You have to puzzle your way through a dungeon and what you do in that dungeon defeats the boss. Not 40 neckbeards whacking away with their +Betterer Swords.
Sen's Fortress in Dark Souls comes to mind.

The problem isn't making really fun or unique zones or content. We have that. The problem remains replayability. Most of us are over grinds, farming, and dailies.
 

Pyros

<Silver Donator>
11,074
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Sen's Fortress in Dark Souls comes to mind.

The problem isn't making really fun or unique zones or content. We have that. The problem remains replayability. Most of us are over grinds, farming, and dailies.
Sen's fortress has a boss at the end and doesn't really have any puzzles, it's just a confusing layout and a lots of traps. I guess a typical example of such design would involve a gigantic boss, so big that the dungeon is basically running around the body of the boss and doing shit that slowly kills it. The boss could also simply be a vehicle(for example a spaceship) and you simply destroy it by solving various mini events type shit in key places to trigger an explosion. I guess the boss terminology would be wrong in this case and it'd be more like an encounter that can be solved without necessarily direct combat.

The problem of this type of encounter is replayability, doing a puzzle for the first time is fine, redoing a puzzle is boring as fuck, even worse than killing the same boss again. Would need a fairly large amount of randomness in the design to make it interesting everytime, but it'd still get boring quickly and the non combat aspect wouldn't help there I think.
 

Hatorade

A nice asshole.
8,207
6,646
Making the dungeon dangerous on its own has some appeal, I knew about the invisible floor that dropped me down a level right in the middle of mobs that will rape me, yet I still fell down it on accident sometimes and died. Less often an entire group would fall down to win the day and skip some bullshit mobs.

Random traps are either tuned too high and kill you making dungeons slow and tedious like in DDO or completely pointless like every other mmo.

Random encounters are fine I guess but even those can be meta gamed eventually.

Only thing that will keep jaded assholes like us playing is new shit all the time and enough new shit to keep us busy between updates.
 

Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
10,034
3
Draegan's option A sounds exactly like WoWs current model. LFR > Normal > Heroic. Three separate tiers you can compete on, to get the loot you want. Sure, the "timed" mechanic is different, but it's essentially the same thing. You want better loot? do shit harder. We all know how that little scenario gets played out in the end.
It's not the same thing at all? It's merely a multiphase encounter that the longer you survive the more loot you get.
 

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
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276
Managing your expectations matters alot here. My "dream MMO" wouldnt even be close to current-day WoW but I know what this is going to be from the start so that's fine with me going in. I'm just a bit worried about them giving all their features the needed polish to be WoW++, since their stated features are so incredibly diverse.

Has there been any word on races having different stats or abilities, btw? Or is that choice simply cosmetic? How about a language barrier? With the alien races they might get away with it even but with humans it gets silly again ('Cassian' for the Dominion and 'redneck' for the Exiles?).
 

Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
10,034
3
Its all a bunch of bullshit regardless.

Remove raid caps.

Let people zerg if they want.

Reward those that don't with different looks of the same gear, epeen boards with tons of stats to compare / contrast. Holy shit the meta game would be a blast to compare and contrast speed, average deaths, number to kill the boss, dps, heals etc etc etc. So many stats why they don't do something with all this info and put it out on their website / forums is beyond me.

The end result is people aren't locked out of any content, the good players get rewarded in multiple ways and everyone is happy. If you want to bring 100 puggers to kill the boss with 2 items be my fucking guest. You want to carry that lady that makes cookies and does phone sex on the weekends so be it. You want to go super hard core and go for the perfect victory achievement and win the "we did it with less" war you can do that as well. Same with timed runs, no deaths, lowest amount of heals, fastest time to kill etc etc..

All that adds to the meta game. Stop worrying so much about how people beat your shitty fucking raid mechanic and let us play the fucking game please. How and when we want. Time vs reward will take care of the rest.

The sooner developers STOP with the surgical developing and micro managing every little move the better. GTFO of my game because the only thing your rules and restrictions do is fuck up the fun.
I agree with your sentiment because if you can make content that everyone can do no matter what, the better. However, in the end, that's not how it works (I wrote about this a few pages ago). You're fighting a few different things with this design philosophy. If you design a really interesting raid encounter, and if you can just bring 10-20 extra people and cheese it, what's the point of making an interesting raid encounter in the first place? Why not just make a bunch of loot pinatas in the game and be done with it?

From your personal point of view, you got to kill a big bad guy and got loot with 2-3-10-50 of your friends. It wasn't very hard at all, but you got stuff. But you had fun because you saw some new art and got loot so who cares?

From an overall, macro point of view, the game has no continuity and sense of accomplishment becomes deflated. In the end, everyone will zerg, or two box, and all encounters become trivial. Then no one really cares what everyone else does. If everyone can just kill the big bad guy, then your accomplishment of doing it with 10 people has no value because everyone else did it.

Sure you might get a title saying, "I beat this bad guy with 10 friends instead of 50 so I'm awesome" but no one cares. Just look at WOW and how the raid game is just bland, and no one really gives a fuck if you did it on Heroic or if you did it via LFR? Progression is saturated and so does your accomplishments.

So the style of game you want exists in WOW and I personally don't like the direction they went. If you asked me 4 years ago, I would of agreed with you 100%, but looking at how raid saturation affected WOW, I see where Wildstar is going with their game.
 

Underjoyed_sl

shitlord
66
2
These elements also caused people to quit in droves when they realize that jobless losers with unlimited playtimes will take everything and leave them nothing. That design is dead and buried and good riddance.
so the complaint is that there is not enough variety in MMOs and that they're all WoW clones, yet any idea that diverts an MMO from being a WoW clone people shoot down and talk about how it's going to fail because it's not like WoW. Brilliant. Almost every MMO out now is like WoW. You and everyone else wants a WoW clone? Guess what, it's out there, and if you don't like that you can even play WoW again. There is a group of people who would actually enjoy something DIFFERENT. I'm sure you'd love to go out in your city with your wife for a nice romantic dinner and all you see is row upon row of McDonalds or derivitave of the same burger joint. Then you ask "why isn't there a place I can go to get some fucking Sushi?" And some person tells you, "Hey man McDonalds makes WAY more money than some mom and pop Sushi place would so shut the fuck up and stop asking for something that wouldn't work"
 

Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
10,034
3
See, you lose your argument automatically when you start using the McDonalds argument. The only thing WOW and McDonalds has in common is that a lot of people consume them. McDonalds food is shitty quality. WOW's game is a high quality product, it just doesn't have the flavors you enjoy.
 

Underjoyed_sl

shitlord
66
2
See, you lose your argument automatically when you start using the McDonalds argument. The only thing WOW and McDonalds has in common is that a lot of people consume them. McDonalds food is shitty quality. WOW's game is a high quality product, it just doesn't have the flavors you enjoy.
are being dense on purpose? It has nothing to do with quality. WoW is high quality YES. It was a great game. YES. What we don't need is every single game to be just like it because then we have no variety or choice. Is that so tough to understand?
 

Valderen

Space Pirate
<Bronze Donator>
4,467
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I doubt I'll be raiding much, I'm a grumpy old man who has trouble finding 10 people I enjoy playing with enough to do 10 man raids in WoW.

So 40 man is likely 30 people too many.
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I usually always end up raiding a little though if only to see what it's like in each game I play. So who knows what will happen, still think 40 is too many. 20 is probably ok.

I'm an altaholic, my fun is leveling...I am really hoping for a good leveling experience...good enough to probably level 4 characters...1 for each path, 2 per faction.

If there is a good amount of elder content for small groups/solo...that's just icing on the cake.
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Aside from missing races and classes, most of what's left to reveal has to do with the elder content.

They've mentioned that there is some form of advancement once you reach the cap...no clue how that will work in this game, how many dungeons there are, etc...