Wildstar Launch Thread - Server: Stormtalon | Faction: Dominion

Kedwyn

Silver Squire
3,915
80
Maybe they realize if they are going to play a shitty copy they might as well just stick with what they are invested in already. I doubt it has much to do with knowing other games are out, more to the point, those other games suck.


Anyone that thinks 500k retained subs is a failure is a retard.
 

xzi

Mouthbreather
7,526
6,763
If you hate questing, I am not sure why are you even wanting to play this game. Unless you are going to level via pvp or something.
To be honest I really don't want to for that reason only, however, this is the first MMO in a long time that my friends are interested in as well so zooming to max level in a fresh game without reading a single quest text won't be much of an issue. I haven't played yet, but if possible I'll just pvp or dungeon my way to max level.

The fucked up thing is I like questing when I'm already capped and actually pay attention to them, but I've always just skipped all the text and rushed as fast as possible like everyone else.
 
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To be honest I really don't want to for that reason only, however, this is the first MMO in a long time that my friends are interested in as well so zooming to max level in a fresh game without reading a single quest text won't be much of an issue. I haven't played yet, but if possible I'll just pvp or dungeon my way to max level.

The fucked up thing is I like questing when I'm already capped and actually pay attention to them, but I've always just skipped all the text and rushed as fast as possible like everyone else.
I've always done the same thing, but then again I have been playing MMO's with the same group of people for like 10 years now and the only thing we are interested in as a group is raiding. So rushing to get to that point is pretty staple for us. I'm positive we are the minority, but I am with you on liking question the second time through.
 

Tmac

Adventurer
<Aristocrat╭ರ_•́>
10,287
17,953
Quests are good if you don't over use them. Levels are fine if you use them in a smart way but no one has in quite some time.
WoW really took the quest out of questing.

Can you really call collecting 10 bear asses a quest? Doesn't sound very questy...

Anyways, I agree with much of what you're saying. Questing, levels and even the gear carrot n' stick are fine if done in moderation, but man did WoW ever take a sledgehammer to moderation. Which lead every game after it to follow.
 

Xevy

Log Wizard
9,065
4,291
Be awesome if they added EQ style quest odd-ball quests where you had to gather 10 bear pelts, but bear pelts were actually hard to get and there wasn't a spot with 100 bears. They were a random spawn a la EQ and there was a chance to drop bear pelts, not a guarantee drop. I know this shit leads to camping and butthurt and drama, but those quests actually felt questy. I'd love to be leveling or farming and be like "OH SHIT WE GOT A GRIZZLY!" and run over there to fight it.
 

Malakriss

Golden Baronet of the Realm
12,879
12,268
Crushbone belts were tradeable and the quest had no level requirement. Two things "modern" MMOs don't support.
 

Aevry

Mobile Game Hunter
462
15
Interestingly enough - This is the first MMO in awhile that makes me WANT to group and regret being a solo player all these years. WTB gaming friends.
 

Voldeth

Trakanon Raider
1,272
624
Interestingly enough - This is the first MMO in awhile that makes me WANT to group and regret being a solo player all these years. WTB gaming friends.
I'm actually mildly curious whether or not it will be an advantage to level up in a group once they have all the bonuses in for those who intend to rush to max level. It's shaping up to be possible for the first time in a very long time to reach the cap without hindering yourself while grouping with friends.

I'm a huge fan that they actually have all the features in during Beta (as seen on their livestream). At this point I can't recall the last MMO that I played thatgot itlike Wildstar does. They already have dungeon content, duels, open world PVP, Arenas, BGs, etc. Most recent games have always made promises to deliver the content at a later 'miracle patch' date and I had already lost interest in the product long before said patch would arrive.
 

Aevry

Mobile Game Hunter
462
15
There seems to be some definite incentives to grouping. Certainly not a requirement, but at least duo-ing content.
 

Miele

Lord Nagafen Raider
916
48
The genre won't get interesting again until developers get rid of the "leveling crutch". Leveling content is stupid and a waste of time like bayr mentioned. It also creates barriers of entry for new players and friends. Until a new player and vet player can play in the same space and have fun, the genre is going to be stale.

Down-leveling, sidekicking or whatever is just a one-way bandaid. Sure high level players can play with new players. That new player is having a fun time, that high level player is just repeating old content again with no real reward or benefit other than maybe grinding points or something. The actual gameplay is boring to them.

The only way to break that up is to be able to create decent procedural content so things are always interesting and new. Building 15 static zones that are painstakingly designed to be run ONLY ONCE per character and sometimes only provide 2-5 hours of play is a horrible waste of time for a game that is designed to occupy people's time for months (sub based).
You think levels, as in character levels are what matters, while in reality what is really important is your item level: you jump from end zone to end zone and you keep "levelling" (your gear and not yourself). In this regard a raid zone has the same longevity than a levelling zone: you do it for a few hours and then it's forgotten.

Maybe the whole character progression paradigm should be revised, that's the point you want to argue I guess and I'm fully in agreement with you.
As I said sometimes ago, a system where all players have no levels, but more a necessity to explore the world and learn/steal new skills or upgraded version of their skills (GW1 style maybe) would be interesting. WoW had something similar for hunters during vanilla, looking for special pets or specific ones to learn new ranks of pet skills, but the scope was very limited.

I'm no game designer, but certainly I'd support a different system than the usual "ding! - gratz!" we played for 15 years.


EDIT: to those claiming 500k subs is good, I say that it depends. If your game sold 2 million copies and retains 500k subs, but it costed 200 milions, well.... that's bad enough for me, of course if it costed 40 milions it's a totally different story.
 

Flight

Molten Core Raider
1,237
293
If you hate questing, I am not sure why are you even wanting to play this game. Unless you are going to level via pvp or something.

Are they not just replacing levels with "Tiers". Need Tier x to do this zone that is designed for tier x , won't get this armor or this ability until tier Y etc .
Sure you're not confusing EQN : Landmark with EQN ?

Landmark is Minecraft++++ with development tools and yes has five tiers of resources and related gathering gear.

Hard to distinguish between the two right now because SoE haven't done the greatest job of underlining the difference between the two - and both products even share a website - but I think all they've said about EQN is they don't want level disparity. I could be wrong, their communication over the two is quite garbled.
 

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
2,395
289
No they said the same about EQN regarding tiers of content and gave some napkin examples about what higher tier items do better instead of being +stats.
 

Rogosh

Lord Nagafen Raider
897
232
Miele said----I'm no game designer, but certainly I'd support a different system than the usual "ding! - gratz!" we played for 15 years.
But that ding grats also had lots of story driven quests and item drops that were used for many years.For those that did not play Everquest, items like journeyman boots(runspeed self buff from inventory),incardine bp(invis buff) and pegasus cloak(levitation). Today you cant find items that are used for that long in an mmo, other than mounts and pets and the occasional illusion.
 

bayr_sl

shitlord
715
0
For me the first thing you have to do is convince me I'm playing in a large, well-crafted persistent world. Current MMO design fails at this when every zone is a segmented isolated experience with level appropriate quests and items for 1-15, then 15-25, etc etc. It's even worse to me when the climate radically changes, like oh yeah I'm in Desert Zone 1-15, now it's time for Lush Green Forest 15-25 that transitions instantly once I step over the boundary into my nextcagezone where nothing of import carries over and everything I've accomplished in the last zone is replaced. They don't even try to hide the treadmill aspect, they embrace it.

And then pretending it's some seamless world because you can technically go from one zone to another through the tiny hallway that connects them (and fucking nowhere else on the map) is just such bullshit design. Even Everquest was better with actual zone lines, at least I could cross over at the location of my choosing for many of them.

I feel like there's some Build Your Own MMO Kit out there that everyone is following now, they just grab these pre-fabricated pieces and stick them together. Things have become so predictable and mundane in these games. Where's the magic and wonder in any of this? What's the primary goal when making your game? There's just no mystery of what's over the next hill in these games, you already know before you got there because you've done all this before. There's just no fucking adventure
 

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
2,395
289
For me the first thing you have to do is convince me I'm playing in a large, well-crafted persistent world. Current MMO design fails at this when every zone is a segmented isolated experience with level appropriate quests and items for 1-15, then 15-25, etc etc. It's even worse to me when the climate radically changes, like oh yeah I'm in Desert Zone 1-15, now it's time for Lush Green Forest 15-25 that transitions instantly once I step over the boundary into my nextcagezone where nothing of import carries over and everything I've accomplished in the last zone is replaced. They don't even try to hide the treadmill aspect, they embrace it.

And then pretending it's some seamless world because you can technically go from one zone to another through the tiny hallway that connects them (and fucking nowhere else on the map) is just such bullshit design. Even Everquest was better with actual zone lines, at least I could cross over at the location of my choosing for many of them.

I feel like there's some Build Your Own MMO Kit out there that everyone is following now, they just grab these pre-fabricated pieces and stick them together. Things have become so predictable and mundane in these games. Where's the magic and wonder in any of this? What's the primary goal when making your game? There's just no mystery of what's over the next hill in these games, you already know before you got there because you've done all this before. There's just no fucking adventure
This is the unfortunate situation, because WoW did it and it has to be right, plus it's easier to leave out a day/night cycle and it's denial of service anyway so lets put the dev time into 3 more bear ass quests because players love those.

But I am not sure Wildstar is the game to break with that trend. My impression so far is we get a mix of WoW and some cherry-picked features from GW2, Tera and so on. GW2 actually had zones like EQ but transition between them was limited to specific spots. It would help alot of they sprinkle in some bits and areas that are different difficulty kinda like early WoW (or TOR!) with their elite areas and Sons of Arugal and what else. Just make them worth doing and people will go. That is assuming they dont have any downscaling in place, simply because there has been no mention of that at all.
 

Bruman

Golden Squire
1,154
0
This is the unfortunate situation, because WoW did it and it has to be right, plus it's easier to leave out a day/night cycle and it's denial of service anyway so lets put the dev time into 3 more bear ass quests because players love those.
Dude, I just had this crazy idea for a ground-breaking MMO...what if instead of 3 bear asses, we went with....get this....FOUR BEAR ASSES?!?!

southpark-five-assed-monkey.jpg
 

Faltigoth

Bronze Knight of the Realm
1,380
212
I feel like there's some Build Your Own MMO Kit out there that everyone is following now, they just grab these pre-fabricated pieces and stick them together. Things have become so predictable and mundane in these games. Where's the magic and wonder in any of this? What's the primary goal when making your game? There's just no mystery of what's over the next hill in these games, you already know before you got there because you've done all this before. There's just no fucking adventure
I think you are hitting on what Utnayan talks about all the time, its really just the same group of developers moving from game to game with the same experiences and ideas, over and over. I am not sure about Wildstar's dev team specifically, but at least some of the 'McMMO' feel you describe can probably be attributed to that. Well, and the desire to copy success on the prayer that Wow-lightning strikes twice.