Wildstar Launch Thread - Server: Stormtalon | Faction: Dominion

asfastasican_sl said:

I think there's a handful of people that want something similar to WoW, but not WoW. As if to say they want a different universe with similar 3rd person gameplay. It doesn't have to be amazing or be balanced. They arent playing another mmo currently and they are sitting there bored as hell.

The mmo genre is kinda beat and worn out. No big studio out there has the hunger or passion to make another WoW. You guys are talking about gameplay design concepts from a 10 year old mmo. Just sit there and think about that for a moment. You should just make peace with yourselves and just move onto another genre. Wildstar isn't perfect but i think it's a ton more polished than ESO.

I went back last december to EQ1 for a few months and had a good time making a lv 100 monk from stratch. If you guys don't want to return to an older mmo and don't find yourself enjoying the new generation games from other genres then its probably time to go find another hobby in your old age. Shit, other games are just more fun. For me, a game like Dota 2 is more involved than other mmo's and the replayability is been higher for an entire decade. Plus it's an spectator sport and an esport. If you dont like twitch gameplay though, there are other great games out there.

I'll still take a key to try this game with awful classes now. It's just a fucking game afterall.

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Who the fuck are you coming in here spitting logic and being all reasonable and shit? Some one give the man a key I would but all out

There are systems from 10-15 years ago present in games like EQ and vanilla WoW that were never carried forward. The worst is the mechanics that were "upgraded" (read: dumbed down) not to enhance gameplay but to appeal to a MMO audience by destroying the very nature of an MMORPG. For example, QuestHelper was an addon to existing quest systems that functioned for years without such supplemental information. Instead of incorporating it to enhance gameplay the addon alone became the new system. All of the design and writing that went into quests faded out and left players with spam clicking things with icons, opening their maps and running between markers before moving on to the next designated hub. Why bother learning zones, area names, NPCs, when you're just following dots and clicks. There's nothing interactive about 80% of these open worlds and once you've outleveled it there's no reason to go back. Disposable.

That's why people get excited when a company actually tries to harken back to the old days and retry some of these systems. Because they don't want 50 actions stacked on hotbars taking up the entire bottom of their screen, or a hard cap of only 8 people in a raid and being screwed when 1 healer can't play that night. People want the flexibility and openness from the best times without the bullshit political correctness that results in hard coded body types and breast sizes. Stop caring how many fat turb of lard characters named after Boba Fett there are, they still look better than the god damn Luclin models.

Malakriss_sl said:

There are systems from10-15 years agopresent in games like EQ and vanilla WoW that were never carried forward. The worst is the mechanics that were "upgraded" (read: dumbed down) not to enhance gameplay but to appeal to a MMO audience by destroying the very nature of an MMORPG.

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Do you think that MMORPG gameplay mechanics/systems are "timeless"? WoW iterated on several mechanics of MMORPGs to appeal to a different audience, but would MMORPGs still be around if they hadn't? I can't think of many game systems or mechanics that are still as comparatively awesome today as they were 10 years ago.

I personally don't know the answer, but there are a few areas I can comment on. First, MMO combat is especially outdated and not intrinsically fun. Comparing combat in a typical MMO to modern titles (both AAA and Indie), MMOs usually fall way short. They lack challenge, interaction, and general engagement. As a result, many players are totally turned off by leveling. Do people honestly feel proud grinding out quests and killing mindless creatures for ~24-36 hours to get to max level? Is that really an "achievement"?

What still is "timeless" is that MMORPGs have the unique opportunity to make players feel like they're meaningful within a broader context - for me, that's the prime selling point of the entire genre. I'm willing to bet that most people who get hooked on an MMO did so because they enjoyed working with other people to achieve some greater objective. Very few games give that category of fulfillment, especially at a scale beyond 3-4 group sizes.However, very few MMORPGs have really tried to iterate on how to deliver this fulfillment. You still see the same stuff you did in EQ - PvE raids, capital city raids, PvP "battlegrounds," etc. Eve Online is a great example of an MMO still going strong because it delivers on this fulfillment in a different way.

Anyways, my 2 questions about Wildstar...
- Has the combat system evolved enough for Wildstar to engage inmoment-to-momentgameplay? Is leveling going to be boring or fun? Will I feel proud for putting in the X hours to get to max level?
- Does Wildstar have a significant evolution to social fulfillment offerings? Or is it the same social fulfillment loops/systems as every other MMORPG?

MattEnth_sl said:

Do you think that MMORPG gameplay mechanics/systems are "timeless"? WoW iterated on several mechanics of MMORPGs to appeal to a different audience, but would MMORPGs still be around if they hadn't? I can't think of many game systems or mechanics that are still as comparatively awesome today as they were 10 years ago.

I personally don't know the answer, but there are a few areas I can comment on. First, MMO combat is especially outdated and not intrinsically fun. Comparing combat in a typical MMO to modern titles (both AAA and Indie), MMOs usually fall way short. They lack challenge, interaction, and general engagement. As a result, many players are totally turned off by leveling. Do people honestly feel proud grinding out quests and killing mindless creatures for ~24-36 hours to get to max level? Is that really an "achievement"?

What still is "timeless" is that MMORPGs have the unique opportunity to make players feel like they're meaningful within a broader context - for me, that's the prime selling point of the entire genre. I'm willing to bet that most people who get hooked on an MMO did so because they enjoyed working with other people to achieve some greater objective. Very few games give that category of fulfillment, especially at a scale beyond 3-4 group sizes.However, very few MMORPGs have really tried to iterate on how to deliver this fulfillment. You still see the same stuff you did in EQ - PvE raids, capital city raids, PvP "battlegrounds," etc. Eve Online is a great example of an MMO still going strong because it delivers on this fulfillment in a different way.

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MMORPGs were about adventure and socialization, with few quests and lots of exploration. Later on they became raiding games, but at least it didn't matter how many people you brought along, it didn't matter if somebody died during a fight, it was just... fun I guess.

i cant believe blade n soul has been out since 2012 and they decided to go with this..... what the fuckkkk

TecKnoe_sl said:

i cant believe blade n soul has been out since 2012 and they decided to go with this..... what the fuckkkk

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Two new IPs with the difference of one being marketable as WoW in space. Blade and Soul, even if the themes and setting didn't put off a lot of people (which it will, it is blatantly over the top sexual), will never be a WoW in space. No matter if it does every core gameplay mechanic better. Potential earnings supersedes everything.

Let the BnS "SO MUCH SHINE" graphicz draw the retards to it. The rest can come play WildStar where we'll have end-game.

I'd play both if I could, but noo.

Xevy_sl said:

Let the BnS "SO MUCH SHINE" graphicz draw the retards to it. The rest can come play WildStar where we'll have end-game.

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Hey now, B&S at least has far superior character customization and far superior combat and better travel abilities and no holy trinity. You can have all the 40-man raids you want, have fun with that!

I dunno, gliding(with no actual wings/glider) stuff gets old with every korean game and the sprint is just a super sprint, a hoverboard is awesome(with a lot of room for variety)! But I agree with the first one and would need to play to see about combat, but if its anything like tera or better then I think it is better then Wildstar's. I actually like the holy trinity.

Zindan_sl said:

Hey now, B&S at least has far superior character customization and far superior combat and better travel abilities and no holy trinity. You can have all the 40-man raids you want, have fun with that!

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Character customization: Because your armor's not going to hide all that shit anyways!
Superior combat: looks like an action RPG like Arkham or something. Not sure I want that.
Travel abilities: huh wha?
Holy Trinity: think a large percentage of gamers WANT a holy trinity.

Also, it's AZN as FUCK.

Asian is fine. Korean MMO's have amazing character models, armor/weapon models and worlds + animation/combat.

Xevy_sl said:

Let the BnS "SO MUCH SHINE" graphicz draw the retards to it. The rest can come play WildStar where we'll have end-game.

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If the end game of WildStar has as little soul as what's been presented in beta so far, I don't think anyone is going to give a fuck about the game for any length of time. Game worlds actually need to be interesting and entertaining to make people swallow the grind that comes with the genre. Not many people are going to be interested in WS's end game grind if both the combat and setting are awful.

Eh that's your opinion, the combat and setting are not awful. The combat could be better(Tera or apparently B&S) but it's not and its better then everything but those full action games. The setting is fine, the world and its contents mesh very well with the overall theme and style.

ZProtoss_sl said:

If the end game of WildStar has as little soul as what's been presented in beta so far, I don't think anyone is going to give a fuck about the game for any length of time. Game worlds actually need to be interesting and entertaining to make people swallow the grind that comes with the genre. Not many people are going to be interested in WS's end game grind if both the combat and setting are awful.

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It's already been confirmed that the raids will be available during beta and put in next patch, which means they'll be starting to show off their elder game next patch. I really disagree with the idea that BnS will be at all popular in the NA market - I played Aion and people were talking about the game (that was like 4 years ago?) I think Wildstar stands a far greater chance of winning over a fair share of the NA market.

Edit: So, Warplots, 20 man, and expert dungeons probably coming out tomorrow. That's a lot of their cards all being shown at once.

Voldeth_sl said:

It's already been confirmed that the raids will be available during beta and put in next patch, which means they'll be starting to show off their elder game next patch. I really disagree with the idea that BnS will be at all popular in the NA market - I played Aion and people were talking about the game (that was like 4 years ago?) I think Wildstar stands a far greater chance of winning over a fair share of the NA market.

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Hard to say how well BnS will work in the west. Personally I think TERA was pretty close to making it big. Combat and graphics destroyed anything else in the market at the time of release, but the game was a bit too unforgiving and did not have enough content. Now, if BnS could avoid those problems I don't see why it would be unable to compete with the shitty raid grinds we're putting out in the west.

If they gave Tera and extra 6-10 months it would have been a hit IMO. They could release it today and it would still feel and look great.

Voldeth_sl said:

It's already been confirmed that the raids will be available during beta and put in next patch, which means they'll be starting to show off their elder game next patch. I really disagree with the idea that BnS will be at all popular in the NA market - I played Aion and people were talking about the game (that was like 4 years ago?) I think Wildstar stands a far greater chance of winning over a fair share of the NA market.

Edit: So, Warplots, 20 man, and expert dungeons probably coming out tomorrow. That's a lot of their cards all being shown at once.

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Wildstar's main problem is that it's intensely mediocore. It has no niche it excels at over any other game in the genre. It has boring combat compared to newer action mmos, and it has a stale world and setting when compared to FFXIV or even WoW. The game never hits you with a "holy shit this is awesome" moment like other genre defining games do - that's a huge problem.

FFXIV sold off the best MMO presentation since vanilla WoW. Tera almost made it big, and Blade could make it big off the best core combat in the genre. What exactly can Wildstar sell people on? And spoiler alert: End game raiding content isn't a sellling point. People will quit long before then if the game isn't impressing the shit out of them in a meaningful way.

People are still throwing money at WOW, which does not boast guild housing or action combat. The game looks similar enough and is appealing to the same demographic which is their target.

I haven't had a holy shit it's awesome moment in WOW in a long time. I doubt most of the people playing it have, either. Wildstar doesn't need to do that, just give enough hooks and familiarity to get a small fraction of WOWs zombie players to buy and try their game for a few months then they'll have recouped their cost and made a nice profit