Wildstar Launch Thread - Server: Stormtalon | Faction: Dominion
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Awesome. Simply awesome. You just summed up the thinking that's proven itself a failure time and time again. The reality is, games need to do more than just copy the status quo from another game in order to see a large influx of players. You need to offer players a new "holy shit this is awesome" moment to make it worth their while to invest their time and money into your game. Even if Wildstar copied modern WoW perfectly (it doesn't), that alone wouldn't be anywhere close to enough to get even a fraction of people to switch. If you're not offering players anything new that impresses them, why would they switch from a game that they've already invested considerable time into?
Xexx
Vyemm Raider
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I've not felt any hooks yet playing, but the main attraction to me was honestly the housing. Combat isnt impressive to me and its not near as fluid feeling as WoWs for whatever reason. I cant really explain why but just something about combat and movement feels off. However that could be related to my toons run/walk animation being pretty weird but its just beta so whatever. I cant see myself quitting WoW to be Level 1 and level all over again in "WoW" without finding a must have aspect in it.
^^^^^
This line of thinking sums up my last post, and is a perfect example of why the "LOL JUST COPY WOW" formula is doomed to fail. It's not enough to copy WoW, you need to do some part of your game dramatically better than WoW if you hope to carve out a profitable niche.
Depends on what you mean by "fail". If Brads game, Pantheon, was released today, fully fleshed out as a true successor to Everquest, that would still not get as many subs as Wildstar. I would play Pantheon of the two, but I think both would be successful (Brads more so) compared to what they cost to make. Even a million people (Wildstar will most likely get that) on a subscription model would make good money for a company.
But you are right. There will be no game that looks like WoW that pulls all the players from WoW. There is no WoW killer, unless they release WoW 2 with the option to transfer characters. That wouldn't be a kill as much as Blizzard slowly putting to sleep their cash cow for a new one.
I saw someone post here about the internal workings of NCsoft, and they made sense. Why focus on Wildstar when Blade and Soul seems better and has those "holy shit this is awesome" (run/jump/fly is great) within a few minutes? Because Wildstar is targeted to the West and Blade and Soul is made to cater to the East and particularly China. Sculpt gameplay and looks to favor the intended audience instead of trying to make something that caters to everyone. I think that is where MMOs need to go. Smaller scale niche games and not massive 200+ million undertakings that need to be a massive hit with millions of purchases the first week or two or else they will be in the red.
Hey, you're preaching to the choir, man. I'm just saying what I 'think' their strategy is right now. I can't even play WOW anymore since it bores me to tears. I beta'ed Wildstar and it's fun, but it's apparent they are going after the mainstay of Warcraft's audience.
Just out of curiousity, when's the last time you had a 'holy shit this is awesome' moment in an MMO? It's been a long time for me. I play for mild amusement nowadays. If I can get 3 months of fun out of an MMO, I consider it a win.
The biggest draw on rerolled is the Pantheon thread which is based on essentially copying old school MMO playing. Most of the people here continue to pay WOW. Wildstar is just trying to offer what they feel the average MMO player wants. I loved WOW for years. If the game is a cool alternative, then that's not bad for the market, even if it is bad for us in that it really doesn't offer anything innovative. Then again, I'm not sure we want new and hotness, since we all complain about changes or games that go outside of the box a la GW2.
I would say Pantheon's popularity was because it was quoted on several news sites and linked back here. It also had a large crowd of shitposters, trolls, people who like watching accidents and just people who like to have conversations.
People just want to play good games with some cool stuff in them. Wildstar feels like a game that had a design doc that was written with the main purpose of hitting as many checklists as possible. The telegraph system wasn't even in the original document. When I played the game at PAX in 2011 it was a normal tab target game. They've tried to change their system too many times. The whol AMP thing is incredibly new and they scrapped their whole milestone/gear system they had in place a year ago. That system was more fun than what is in the game now. They hid all the gear stuff behind fucking crafting. Crafting sucks, no one really likes it.
People just want to play good games with some cool stuff in them. Wildstar feels like a game that had a design doc that was written with the main purpose of hitting as many checklists as possible. The telegraph system wasn't even in the original document. When I played the game at PAX in 2011 it was a normal tab target game. They've tried to change their system too many times. The whol AMP thing is incredibly new and they scrapped their whole milestone/gear system they had in place a year ago. That system was more fun than what is in the game now. They hid all the gear stuff behind fucking crafting. Crafting sucks, no one really likes it.
FFXIV was a holy shit moment for me. Not because of the combat mechanics or gameplay (which were average), but the overall presentation of the game was at a high enough level to really impress. Blade and Soul's combat system was also good enough to impress (along with the overall level of polish in that game). On a lesser level, SWTOR's storyline/companion system was fun for a short time, but not fun enough to play the game beyond the first month. Aside from those examples, nothing has really stood out to me for post WoW MMOs.
Crafting is only a problem when it becomes ultra mandatory for people who don't like crafting to utilize crafting. There's a definite subset of players who love crafting in MMOs, but you can't piss off 85% of your player base in order to appease the 15% (or whatever, numbers pulled out of my ass here for the sake of discussion) that actually like it.
Ideally, I think the best case scenario for crafting is one in where crafting makes gear that's 10-15% worse than the top end PvE gear in most slots, and maybe makes gear that's 5-10% better than PvE gear in 1-2 specific slots. Enough to make crafting relevant, but not heavily focused on to the point that you alienate people who couldn't care less about it.
I set the bar even lower than that. If it's fun for the free month it's all good. Unfortunately, in the case of Wildstar it feels too bland to be fun even for a limited amount of time. I mean, I played SWTOR for a couple of months for the story and had fun. I played TERA for the combat and graphics for a month and had fun. I play each WoW expansion for a month or two to check it out and chat with friends and that is fun as well. If Wildstar could provide me with a month of entertainment I would have no complaints.
I think he means crafting in Wildstar, not crafting in general. Wildstar is a game made up of various systems implemented in basically the worst way imaginable. Kind of like TOR without any of the hooks TOR had, like the story and (main)quest delivery. It's the culmination of years without a single original idea or thought, by people who seemingly have no understanding of what makes a game worthwhile
Evernothing
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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I have not played since I first put in an hour or two when I got beta access, tried again last night and actually started getting into it.
The Stalker combat can be surprisingly fun in PvE, so I'm going to at least play until I can check out some PVP, because I think it has promise once you get it to click.
The graphics start to grow on you after a while too.
The Stalker combat can be surprisingly fun in PvE, so I'm going to at least play until I can check out some PVP, because I think it has promise once you get it to click.
The graphics start to grow on you after a while too.
Previous to yesterday, several years. I tried Blade and Soul yesterday, and at level 1 you unlock sprint. Which seems trivial, then you try it and you run at the seeming speed of an epic mount in any other game. The animations following it are perfect, including the cat following me in sprint mode. Then I jumped and pressed space again, and I could glide.
Both things done before, but it was so smooth and the setting fit it perfectly. Asian themed fighters can fly, we all seen that from Chinese movies. Animations and abilities are set to fit with the culture of China.
So, the holy shit moment came from just everything looking and feeling just right. Not that it would save an entire game, but having that feeling in the first 10 minutes is something no MMO has given me in a long time. (EDIT: Last time was the quests from The Secret World) That initial burst of fun instead of "end game is where it is at". Fun from the start should not be a strange concept. And this is in a MMO where I understand nothing apart from the few translated UI bits and some quest text.
MMOs are more fun when played together. However, since the actual interactivity and group play has been downplayed a lot in the later years in favor for "your" experience, they have had to make the gameplay faster and more interactive in order to keep players retention (like a single player game). Constant progress, constant achievements and constant rewards to offset the lower risk put into the games as well. Instead of making things group based, where one class had CC, one damage, one tanked, etc, everyone needs every ability, and group play becomes a whirlwind of abilities. Usually no need to really think of group composition or playstyle (pulling, main tank, etc) until "hard" or "expert" dungeons.
I not good at twitch combat (anyone who grouped with my evasion skills in FF 14 can vouch for that), but I love tactical combat. For instance in EQ I could fight one mob for hours trying to get pet chains just right in order to kill it. Much rather build upon being able to use a few skills more effectively than getting new skills every level. Skills who base up damage until my level gets within range of the mob so the hardcoded resists no longer make the fight unwinnable.
Wildstar goes back to the more tactical choices of only having a limited set of abilities, but it still looks like the same formula we have seen lately. You play by yourself to level except for occasional quests and there is no need for grouping. In a standoff against a single mob your level, you will never be in danger no matter what skills you pick, as has been the case of every mmo since Everquest I think. Now most mobs nearly feel invisible to the eye as you are only on the lookout for the one listed in your quest tracker.
Crone
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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Sorry to come in and noob up the thread... but...
Are beta keys still pretty rare, even with release date seemingly pretty close? Was just perusing, and realized I signed up for this beta back last spring, but haven't heard or seen really anything since then.
People still seem to be omg omg over beta keys, trying to trade for them so I assume still pretty rare?
Are beta keys still pretty rare, even with release date seemingly pretty close? Was just perusing, and realized I signed up for this beta back last spring, but haven't heard or seen really anything since then.
People still seem to be omg omg over beta keys, trying to trade for them so I assume still pretty rare?
yes and they are almost certainly starting pre order beta in march as they are removing a ton of people from the current beta
Crone
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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So all those suckers buying $100 beta keys on the net could get screwed and be removed? lol
Xexx
Vyemm Raider
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I think WS will be fairly successful for what it is, i dont see it being too much better than SWTOR but that entirely depends on the PVP and endgame in my eyes. I'm not calling it a WoW clone per se but it's so far alike that it would need to do something fairly amazing in those two fields to get me to play it and not WoW. WoW itself is in a nice slump and with the expac being so far away with no new content in the works - this could be a good time for WS to come out and get all the people bored in wow and tired of farming the current raid zone.
Currently to me there is nothing else besides WoW and maybe Pantheon to look forward to. EQN was sounding awesome until they said no trinity. Call me old fashion but i love the trinity and have no desire to play another way. I am however flexible so if EQN turns out to be awesome i'll be all over it.
At any rate World of Spacecraft will have its following, but the early game is kind of boring and doesnt pull you in. I'm only level 10 but i've had no fun "yet". That may seem like nothing but its honestly a problem, i dont want to play a game waiting to reach the point where its enjoyable. I am only speaking for myself since i know alot may jump in and be blown away or take a liking to it without fail.
Currently to me there is nothing else besides WoW and maybe Pantheon to look forward to. EQN was sounding awesome until they said no trinity. Call me old fashion but i love the trinity and have no desire to play another way. I am however flexible so if EQN turns out to be awesome i'll be all over it.
At any rate World of Spacecraft will have its following, but the early game is kind of boring and doesnt pull you in. I'm only level 10 but i've had no fun "yet". That may seem like nothing but its honestly a problem, i dont want to play a game waiting to reach the point where its enjoyable. I am only speaking for myself since i know alot may jump in and be blown away or take a liking to it without fail.
Cinge
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Shit like this makes me laugh.
Man Bayr is on a mini-UT crusade, its funny to read for the last 40 pages or so(how long he's been letting us know it sucks to him).
To anyone who wants a opinion, I would just try the game yourself sometime, pretty sure there will be plenty of chances and there is enough public info atm to let you know if you are going to hate it right off the bat(people who hate quest hubs , play it, then complain about quest hubs) or if it rates at least a try first.
Zindan
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Of course its Asian, and its graphic quality shines. Another good aspect about B&S is that your character isn't locked into a set type of "armor"...since there is no armor in that game, just outfits. You place stats into that outfit as you see fit.
Combat in B&S feels very smooth, better movement / animations than any other game I've played (better than Tera or GW2). Just something you would have to play to understand.
Travel abilites are great...no need to stop and make a mount appear out of thin air; You can run really fast, glide off cliffs, virtually fly by sprinting in midair, divebomb mobs on the ground while gliding, and even run up / along walls. So much more fun than riding some mount (I'll give you that hoverboards are cool, I'd say they were awesome if I were still a kid with a skateboard).
Not having a holy trinity works great in B&S, far better than GW2, since the game gives the ability to lockdown bosses and heal yourself (buuuut you still need to aware of whats going on). In a game like GW2 I miss the holy trinity, in a game like Tera I hate having to need a tank / healer, while in B&S it feels perfect to not have tanks / healers.