World of Warcraft: Current Year

Merrith

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Are they camping mount spawns? Certain areas aren't really exploitable as they're not only questing areas but WQ areas as well, it forces at least the amount needed to complete the quest to be spawned at any given time. So if a quest requires 8 mobs to kill, there will always be 8 of those specific mobs in the area popped. It's why monk statue farming is super strong because if you kill enough fast enough you just continue to pull the other pops immediately.

It works like that in any area needed to kill x amount of mobs.

They've been pretty unclear whether this is exploiting game mechanics or not, but it's been the case since at least WoD and nobody really gets banned for farming these areas.

They've done certain mount spawn areas, but they were looking for maximum lazy and a lot of the hyena drop areas had mobs casting whirlwind abilities that forced movement. There was one spot down near Freehold (the pirate area, not the actual dungeon) right next to the Ring of Booty where two "stalls" of pirates you could trigger hyperspawn (as you say, all of these spots are set up to require X amount of mobs to be up all the time). Another spot was at a certain crossroads west of Nesingwary (sp) in Zuld. As far as I know both of those spots have now been nerfed (pirate spot last week sometime, Zuld spot just recently).

The Monk statue just makes it all trivial b/c it pulls in so much if you get set up in the right spot you literally don't even need to move, just do your ae, clear it all, and loot every so often. You just get stacks of linen, good amount of deep sea satin, and boe greens to either scrap or disenchant. Guys with 2k dust from the amount of greens they've DE'd probably set for the entire expansion. Also boe epics that guys have made a couple million in total selling (amount varies as prices have crashed hard on a lot of them due to the farming, etc).

I guess it could be considered an exploit? But really just taking advantage of the way they set up the mechanics of requiring X amount of mobs to be up at any given time. I suppose if people were just botting it that would be grounds for bans or something, but otherwise it's just a group AEing mobs that are spawning.
 
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Araxen

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I put a lot of time into this, so if you care about this please read and if you agree please share it. :D

In my opinion, Island Expeditions have the potential to be what Mythic+ was for Legion. PvP Island Expeditions only though, the PvE versions are boring and often times harder because the Blizzard AI is smarter than most actual players. In this post, I'm going to make a list of changes, improvements, weak points, and everything else in between that I feel Island Expeditions need to be more engaging to players and also an audience:

--Closer parity between individual mob difficulty relative to their rewards. A simple example: crabs are harder to kill than crocodiles. The reason for this is that crabs can root you then cast an AoE cone after the root, crocs can only cast an AoE cone and a slow. There is a clear difficulty gap between these two mob types that will lead to crabs always being avoided and crocs always being pulled. The difficulty gap would also be completely fine if crabs gave more points than crocs, but they don't. In my eyes, I consider it boring and shitty game design to be indirectly pigeonholed into only killing certain mob types while other mob types are ignored entirely.

A mob that can combo (root+cleave) should give more points than a mob that can only initiate one piece of that combo (root or cleave). This also works inversely with the mob types that are too easy. My solution would be to make crabs root and crocs cleave, that way they are unique and also have synergy with each other. The reason parity between these mobs is needed is because we don't want the Island Expedition meta to mirror the Diablo 3 Greater Rift meta where you have to fish for the right map and mob types to push the highest rift levels. It should be Island Expeditions not Croc Expeditions.

--Rethink the Doubloon system. This is more of a competitive concern and less of a casual one, but I think being able to go into an Expedition with 40 doubloons and spend them all on tanks (more on those later) and buffs is against the spirit of competition and not a very good system for competitive play. It's not(less) satisfying to win against a team after spending a ton of currency to beat them and it's also not satisfying to lose to a team because they used a ton of currency to beat you.

Doubloons would be a lot more interesting if they were awarded to players after killing rares/rare elites and were exclusive to that specific match. Basically, the resource system we see in a lot of MOBA's. Not only would this level the playing field but it would also make the end of the matches more dynamic and different than the beginning. It could create more points of interest around the map and draw teams together to compete for rares more often.

--Tone down the bullshit items. Yes, it's no coincidence that this post is being made on the same week that the siege engines are available. It's pretty stupid that you can be cc'd and then literally one shot with an item you can buy from a vendor at the start of the match. Even though these items are available to both teams, they create an contrived meta that requires you to either use these items or lose (assuming both teams are similar skill, of course you can beat terrible teams regardless of items). Being stunned and then having a tank drive on top of you and cast an AoE ability that instantly kills your character is not fun.

I'm not saying to remove these items, but many of them with little to no counterplay potential (arcane wand and tanks) should have their effectiveness against players reduced by 75%. This would allow them to still be meaningful in team fights without them being the deciding factor. It would also create a second level of meta gameplay especially around the tanks where teams that used tanks would have to actively protect them and focus more on killing NPC's and less on players. Items should modify and enhance matches, not define them.

--Make arena frames activate when you're in combat with enemy players. This is kind of a simple one that helps visibility and makes it easier for players to see enemy casts and health bars.

--Create more diverse PvE mechanics. Almost all of the PvE mechanics are either front facing cone shockwave abilities, 360 degree AoE abilities, or forward facing lines that deal damage. Maybe this is just because I'm a melee, but it seems like almost all of the mechanics in Expeditions are melee focused and not enough are caster focused. I'd like to see more mechanics that aren't melee focused such as a version of King Deepbeard's (Eye of Azshara sea giant boss) stomp mechanic that puts a danger zone under every player that they have to move out of.

--Create more deterministic rewards. The mounts and pets should be buyable with some sort of currency rather than all of them just being random drops. Giving players something to work towards is more satisfying than giving them a lever for a slot machine. They're also not mutually exclusive, but I'd like to see some sort of way to offset bad luck considering that there are so many rewards you can get from the expeditions.

--A warmode system that allows two 3-man teams to queue against each other without rewards. This would let you make tournaments and allow teams to practice against each other. If Expeditions are ever intended to be a competitive activity, you need a warmode system.


Yes, this was a long read and hopefully you agree with some if not all of my points. As always I'm always up for discussion and debate about them. My main focus is making this feature as successful as it can be and these are my ideas for doing so.

I've done two PVE expeditions and they are boring as hell. I'm never been into WoW PVP at all sadly.
 
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Serpens

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They still haven't nerfed all of them. Guildies out there doing it for a couple hours daily.

Unrelated note, nice of blizz to hotfix the amount of Midnight salmon needed for feasts from 5 to 2.

It's actually 5 to 3. But, shit, now I can't charge raiders as much as I was expecting to.
 

Merrith

Golden Baronet of the Realm
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It's actually 5 to 3. But, shit, now I can't charge raiders as much as I was expecting to.

No, it's 2. Was with 2 star, and still is with 3 star. No idea what it is with 1 star b/c I had 2 star before the hotfix and frankly it's not even worth talking about what 1 star mats are for feasts when 2 and 3 star are so easy to attain (and frankly just should be mandatory before anyone would start burning mats on it...unless they're idiots).
 
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Chris

Potato del Grande
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I've done two PVE expeditions and they are boring as hell. I'm never been into WoW PVP at all sadly.
I'm pretty sure that Blizzard is allergic to good game design and will do none of this.

Remember that this is the company that had the Diablo 3 level designers learn how to do procedurally generated levels on the job because all they let go the Diablo 2 level desingers and hired people who had never played Diablo 2 managed by a guy who didn't like DIablo 2, then got curbstomped by a tiny indie studio in New Zealand who just iterated on Diablo 2.
 
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Serpens

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No, it's 2. Was with 2 star, and still is with 3 star. No idea what it is with 1 star b/c I had 2 star before the hotfix and frankly it's not even worth talking about what 1 star mats are for feasts when 2 and 3 star are so easy to attain (and frankly just should be mandatory before anyone would start burning mats on it...unless they're idiots).

Yes, you're right. Haven't leveled it up yet, too casual.
 

Araxen

Golden Baronet of the Realm
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I'm pretty sure that Blizzard is allergic to good game design and will do none of this.

Remember that this is the company that had the Diablo 3 level designers learn how to do procedurally generated levels on the job because all they let go the Diablo 2 level desingers and hired people who had never played Diablo 2 managed by a guy who didn't like DIablo 2, then got curbstomped by a tiny indie studio in New Zealand who just iterated on Diablo 2.

I read somewhere that they trot out some metric at Shareholder meetings about people staying logged in longer, and it would jive with what the game is like now. Trying to keep you logged in as long as possible with rewards being as low as possible but not low enough that you'll unsub to the game. I'm sure good game design is #3 on their list for this game.
 

Vaultek

Molten Core Raider
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Is there a quest to start these expeditions? I hit 120 a couple days after launch, but have not done any dungeons yet, if that's needed first. I thought at first people were talking about just the quests on the other factions islands, but this looks like something else. Sorry if this is an obvious mechanic, this is the first time I've really played since WotLK.
 

Noodleface

A Mod Real Quick
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Is there a quest to start these expeditions? I hit 120 a couple days after launch, but have not done any dungeons yet, if that's needed first. I thought at first people were talking about just the quests on the other factions islands, but this looks like something else. Sorry if this is an obvious mechanic, this is the first time I've really played since WotLK.

Do the war campaign quests, they lead up to it
 

Kaige

ReRefugee
<WoW Guild Officer>
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Yeah, the war campaigns lead up to it, and after you unlock it on one character, it unlocks them at 110 for the other characters on your account.
 

alavaz

Trakanon Raider
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I don't remember getting the expeditions string my war campaign. I finally just checked the table and had access. Probably just don't remember it.
 

Dalien

Registered Hodor
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I read somewhere that they trot out some metric at Shareholder meetings about people staying logged in longer, and it would jive with what the game is like now. Trying to keep you logged in as long as possible with rewards being as low as possible but not low enough that you'll unsub to the game. I'm sure good game design is #3 on their list for this game.

Yup they don't report the number of subs to shareholders anymore, they report "time played"
 

Derkon

Trakanon Raider
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I read somewhere that they trot out some metric at Shareholder meetings about people staying logged in longer, and it would jive with what the game is like now. Trying to keep you logged in as long as possible with rewards being as low as possible but not low enough that you'll unsub to the game. I'm sure good game design is #3 on their list for this game.

Too late.
 

Morrow

Trakanon Raider
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I read somewhere that they trot out some metric at Shareholder meetings about people staying logged in longer, and it would jive with what the game is like now. Trying to keep you logged in as long as possible with rewards being as low as possible but not low enough that you'll unsub to the game. I'm sure good game design is #3 on their list for this game.

Yeah I've heard that this big meetings are all about play time nowadays, even for WoW. Which doesn't make much sense to me because there isn't a big reason why increased play time would = increased spending since it's not like WoW has a ton of shop stuff. But it definitely seems like that's how WoW is being designed and it baffles me. All it does is burn people out and cause them to unsubscribe... These people at the top are absolutely fucking retarded. Not as retarded as Ion, because fuck him, he should know better, but really, really dumb nonetheless.

Social media execs measure time spent on the platform as the goal, and youtube and netflix do, and that makes sense, because the longer you are there, the more ads you see, but it does not make any sense for WoW. Maybe for a freemium mmo that constantly pushes upgrades at you and content blocks you unless you buy something from the store, but WoW isn't like that, so why the fuck are they designing everything as if it is? In fact it's the exact fucking opposite. Technically, from a purely financial perspective, you'd want your players to play as little as possible, while still staying subscribed. smh
 
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Kyougou

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I don't think its playtime per se, its probably about keeping players around with active subscriptions over time, which was a clear issue with the expansions before Legion where they would see a big surge in subscribed players and then lose most of those in the next couple of months.
Legion clearly had a lot of systems intended to keep you subscribed.

This expansion I am sure they are also trying to up service sales (boosts, race changes, faction changes) and I think they are being quite successful at it too.
 

a_skeleton_05

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This expansion I am sure they are also trying to up service sales (boosts, race changes, faction changes) and I think they are being quite successful at it too.

Yeah. Allied Races served two really big purposes for them: people clamoring for alternate racial "skins" and a way to sell a lot of race changes/boosts. It's a win win for them really.

And the reason I resubbed to the end of Legion was specifically to unlock the allied races and work on mage towers. Didn't give a shit at all about the Argus stuff
 

kaid

Blackwing Lair Raider
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Is there a quest to start these expeditions? I hit 120 a couple days after launch, but have not done any dungeons yet, if that's needed first. I thought at first people were talking about just the quests on the other factions islands, but this looks like something else. Sorry if this is an obvious mechanic, this is the first time I've really played since WotLK.


You will get kind of a tutorial expedition quest prior to 120 and then after that do the war quest and it unlocks them. The way to queue for them is a table on near boat with your mission board the guy at the table is flynn the guy you do a lot of questing with over in the free hold area.
 

kaid

Blackwing Lair Raider
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Yeah. Allied Races served two really big purposes for them: people clamoring for alternate racial "skins" and a way to sell a lot of race changes/boosts. It's a win win for them really.

And the reason I resubbed to the end of Legion was specifically to unlock the allied races and work on mage towers. Didn't give a shit at all about the Argus stuff

Well also every time they add a new allied race they are opening up a new character slot on your "main" server. This is nice for me as it allows me to mess around with some horde alts without having to delete alliance characters.
 
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