World of Warcraft: Current Year

Khane

Got something right about marriage
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EDIT: I misread your post. I think we had probably close to 100 on Kingaroth. You said mythic argus when I think you meant mythic antorus

Khane is mad that I'm bitching - I'm not. I didn't mind wiping 500 times, because I knew we were going to kill Argus. I don't have an opinion either way whether it should take that many pulls or not. IIRC it took Method 200-300 pulls?

My main point in the beginning was they should worry less about tuning mythic, and more about fixing this piece of shit game.

I'm not even arguing with you Khane, I was poking fun. Relax, not everyone is out to get you.

Fair enough, it just seems completely counterproductive for players to support this kind of raid design. It's not fun, and games are supposed to be fun. Mythic tuning is a huge part of the problem with everything else in this game. So many of the decisions they make, and a lot of the cockblocking and timewalling that exists, exists solely to slow down bleeding edge players. And it makes the game stale and disjointed and just plain suck. Most of the things that suck about modern WOW suck because of their infatuation with stonewalling bleeding edge players.

That's why I get so cranky when people argue with me that there should be something that takes people who play this game for a living hundreds or thousands of man hours to beat. The rest of the game, and most of players, even players like me, suffer as a result.
 

Korillo

Molten Core Raider
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Wiping 100+ times is not really that bad, unless it is on an earlier, easier boss. I doubt anyone who killed ghuun did it with fewer than 100 pulls, or at least very close to 100 pulls. You expect to wipe on the later bosses, and slowly progress through the encounter. That is what makes it enjoyable.

If everything was like heroic the game would get very boring very quickly.
 

a c i d.f l y

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EDIT: I misread your post. I think we had probably close to 100 on Kingaroth. You said mythic argus when I think you meant mythic antorus

Khane is mad that I'm bitching - I'm not. I didn't mind wiping 500 times, because I knew we were going to kill Argus. I don't have an opinion either way whether it should take that many pulls or not. IIRC it took Method 200-300 pulls?

My main point in the beginning was they should worry less about tuning mythic, and more about fixing this piece of shit game.

I'm not even arguing with you Khane, I was poking fun. Relax, not everyone is out to get you.
Yes, I did mean Antorus. The Argus raid. The only real mythic effort during Legion.

I missed the first two weeks of progression on King, but want to say I was there for day one of week three where we got to 0% wipe after 4 attempts at the end of a Friday night, which was apparently in the upper 80's in terms of total attempts. Others can correct me here.

Most of us were near gear cap up to that point. The folks doing week first kills are extremely capped gear wise from the previous tier doing split raids out the ass. I didn't even do m+ for the weekly chest during Legion, given I'd need a titanforge for a very specific couple slots to make less than .1% difference. Removal of tier significantly nurfs gear requirements given Azerite traits and neck level make minimal difference. And you don't even get Azerite from the chest now.

I guess what I'm saying here is that I fucking hate having to hit multiple angles of the game to gear up for a single function - raiding. I get having cross benefits, but I shouldn't be required to hit M+, pvp, dick sucking, to help fill slots just to ensure I'm raid geared appropriately. Not that I'm raiding because fuck this expac.

Side note and question, tier 1 had an Azerite stacking buff - is that present in this tier?
 

a c i d.f l y

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Fair enough, it just seems completely counterproductive for players to support this kind of raid design. It's not fun, and games are supposed to be fun. Mythic tuning is a huge part of the problem with everything else in this game. So many of the decisions they make, and a lot of the cockblocking and timewalling that exists, exists solely to slow down bleeding edge players. And it makes the game stale and disjointed and just plain suck. Most of the things that suck about modern WOW suck because of their infatuation with stonewalling bleeding edge players.

That's why I get so cranky when people argue with me that there should be something that takes people who play this game for a living hundreds or thousands of man hours to beat. The rest of the game, and most of players, even players like me, suffer as a result.
It shouldn't make me smash my dick for 1000s of hours for the top end, but at the same time it should give me something to do if I care to do it, that's relative to current content that keeps me busy, engaged, and interested. They did this successfully in Legion. They did it in Wrath. I don't think they've ever dropped the ball on this aspect as hard as they have with BFA.
 
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Khane

Got something right about marriage
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It shouldn't make me smash my dick for 1000s of hours for the top end, but at the same time it should give me something to do if I care to do it, that's relative to current content that keeps me busy, engaged, and interested. They did this successfully in Legion. They did it in Wrath. I don't think they've ever dropped the ball on this aspect as hard as they have with BFA.

They absolutely did NOT do this in Legion. Legion was the start of all this. You were in FoH right? You did not experience any Mythic tier while current until Antorus, and that caused the guild to completely fall apart before you were even half way through and Noodle ghosted everyone and just straight up server transferred. I do not understand why you are arguing about this with me.
 
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Khane

Got something right about marriage
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I guess what I'm saying here is that I fucking hate having to hit multiple angles of the game to gear up for a single function - raiding. I get having cross benefits, but I shouldn't be required to hit M+, pvp, dick sucking, to help fill slots just to ensure I'm raid geared appropriately. Not that I'm raiding because fuck this expac.

Side note and question, tier 1 had an Azerite stacking buff - is that present in this tier?

This is what I have been saying this entire time... this is a function of Mythic tuning. I mean... what the fuck?
 

Khane

Got something right about marriage
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Wiping 100+ times is not really that bad, unless it is on an earlier, easier boss. I doubt anyone who killed ghuun did it with fewer than 100 pulls, or at least very close to 100 pulls. You expect to wipe on the later bosses, and slowly progress through the encounter. That is what makes it enjoyable.

If everything was like heroic the game would get very boring very quickly.

BoD appears to be the first raid in a very long time that does not have a mid-tier boss cockblock. In NH it was Spellblade and then Star Augur and then Elisande. In ToS it was Mistress and then Fallen Avatar before the most overtuned boss of all time, Kil'jaeden. In Antorus it was Aggramar. In Uldir it was Fetid Devourer. This is a trend that's been around for a while now. Having the last boss be severely more difficult but also drop higher level loot was something they typically did in older raids but there was a steady difficulty ramp and usually one straight up DPS/gear check leading up to that fight. In recent years they have gotten away from that and Helya is the only final boss that has dropped higher ilvl loot as well. G'huuns loot table was straight up trash.
 
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Merrith

Golden Baronet of the Realm
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a mid-tier boss cockblock. In Antorus it was Aggramar.

?

Agree on the Fetid shit, although that sure seemed like a typical Blizzard "we sucked dick at figuring out what was possible so we'll fix it" tuning fuck up, rather than an intended difficulty ramp up.
 

a c i d.f l y

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They absolutely did NOT do this in Legion. Legion was the start of all this. You were in FoH right? You did not experience any Mythic tier while current until Antorus, and that caused the guild to completely fall apart before you were even half way through and Noodle ghosted everyone and just straight up server transferred. I do not understand why you are arguing about this with me.
No one here is arguing with you.

I did peek into mythic during EN, Nighthold, and TOS, separately from FOH. The EN group I played with monstered through EN Mythic, but it was the first tier and replaced relatively quickly so it didn't matter. The half tier between EN and TOS caused alt guilds I was following and playing with to dissolve due to Hela's tuning. That was long before TOS.

Noodle is the singular reason FOH crumbled midway through Antorus and I assume he would say no different. Losing a tank and raid leader tends to do that to a guild. Also not the first time I have experienced this first hand. It dates back to before mythic raiding was a thing, but speaking specifically to mythic, when Siege of Org opened mythic, Blackfuse murdered a guild I was in when they couldn't consistently field enough for 25 after hitting a wall being so close to the next expac, even after being server first for everything heroic prior to mythic being a thing.

Other than my inconsistent attendance on Mondays, FoH progressed every week. Albeit we were far behind the curve being a historically average, casual as fuck heroic guild, going from server rank of 300 to the top 4 or 5 in a single tier, kinna still butt hurt about the whole thing, but it is what it is.

Average guilds are fragile and the game itself is quite long in the tooth, so individual player dedication is waning heavily without monetary or ohysical rewards. Makes me better understand the proliferation of games like Destiny, Anthem, Division, etc, allowing short time frames for encounters, and gear trickle without substantial content we should expect from a subscriber based game.
 

a c i d.f l y

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Boss difficulty tier has honestly been relatively measurable. Trash bosses, section boss, sub final boss, and final boss. This goes back as far as Molten Core. Usually a council fight before the boss before the final boss. Tuning some of the cockblocks goes back to Chromaggus. This is only T2 of this expac, the least interesting expansion, so not at all surprised that they wouldn't make anything as absurdly brick walled. And honestly, none of these encounters this tier look all that challenging compared to some of the shit we've seen before. Mostly luck of not getting shit on by a random mechanic (more than a horribly placed soak).
 

Valishar

Molten Core Raider
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I never played during Legion and I remember Kil'Jaden too. It's the only mythic boss in Legion that 120lvl PUGs can't do. That's why only 1.1% of people have "the Darkener" as a title.
 

Kithani

Blackwing Lair Raider
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Not sure I agree with the use of the word "hobby" here when talking about a Mythic difficulty fight, usually the final fight of a raid, too. If it's a "hobby", I would think *need to clear Mythic* wouldn't be a consideration for that type of player.

What exactly is Mythic raiding considered if not a hobby? A sport? A job?
 

BoozeCube

Von Clippowicz
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Kil'Jaden was so fucked as a boss that even LFR retards with the determination buffs couldn't kill him. Because you had to do things.
 
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Kithani

Blackwing Lair Raider
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I don't routinely follow high end raiding but I did find it interesting (had a relatively light week at work this week so had some time to dick around and watch streams). My understanding is that most of the players on these teams actually have jobs and use vacation time for progression, while a few of them have converted to full time streaming after finding some viewership from streaming progression. I remember reading something about that Mythic KJ and when they finally did kill it they were about to have to limit their raid times because people had exhausted all of their vacation (lol).
 

Khane

Got something right about marriage
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Method has gone full time job. Pretty sure their entire roster has gone full time as a WoW player/streamer. A lot of the revenue generated from the World First race gets split amongst them.
 

Kithani

Blackwing Lair Raider
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Do you have a source for that? Not arguing with you, I just find the topic interesting. What I read was that the main streamers were agreeing to pool 20% of the stream revenue and split it amongst the raid, and that this was the first time they did that. It’ll be interesting to see if a lot more of them convert to full time streaming afterward.
 

Khane

Got something right about marriage
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They did it last tier as well and a lot of them had talked about it on their own streams. I don't have a definitive source, it's just something Josh, Deepshades, pretty much the entirety of their roster has talked about at some point. It's also hard to imagine any of them having a career that would actually afford them legitimate vacation time, though I guess anything is possible. The game now is a lot different than it was even at the beginning of Legion. Legion started this trend of needing to spend exorbitant amounts of time outside of raid to be able to perform inside a raid.