2018-2019 NBA Thread

zzeris said:

They are but at the same time...you can't help but feel they've underachieved. It sounds stupid for a team to go to 5 straight, win 3, and still be called underachievers but I don't think anyone has ever collected the level of talent they have(maybe old Celtics). Until this finals, they had the best overall player, the best scorer, another top 5 scorer, and an elite rebounder/defender. Now everyone is up Kawhi's ass(deservedly), but Golden State would have still won this at full strength...probably easily.

I have to give the teams you mentioned a leg up though. They fought against much dirtier opponents when the rules were so much lighter. Guys like Harden would have been nobodies in the 80s. Those kickback threes that are 50/50 fouls just wouldn't happen. His ass would have kissed that floor almost as much without all those fouls to make him 'great'. Yeah, a top team overall but let's not go crazy.

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This. Agree with everything you've said here.

So you think they underachieved when 3/5 of the best players all missed considerable time in the playoffs? How much adversity are they supposed to overcome? You gonna bring up that Iggy was a Finals MVP...four years ago? Anyone thinking the Warriors underachieved after these playoffs is just blindly hating. 2016 is literally the only time they ever fell short. And if they won in 2016 the dynasty probably would have been over because Harrison fucking Barnes would have become the highest paid player on the Dubs. That would have been awful.

O LORDY

We're just going to disagree. The Warriors did manage the load throughout the season. But they've been to five straight Finals now. It just adds up. Yeah, yeah LBJ went to a bunch straight but that dude isn't fucking human. The supporting cast just wasn't there this season. This team had the least depth of any Dubs roster in the past few years. Livingston and Iggy are old now - though Iggy didn't show it much in the Finals, Cousins was a shell of himself due to injuries, Bogut was unplayable, nothing needs to be said about Jerebko and Bell. There was a point when the only bigs left on the roster were Bogut and Cousins. It was just dire. I'm impressed with how the Dubs still managed to make it a game. Did you see that fourth quarter lineup? It was lol-worthy.

In terms of "dynasties" right now I've got the current GSW squad somewhere in the top 10. In my opinion they would have to win at least 2 more championships in the next 5 years to be in a top 5 conversation, which I don't think is all that unrealistic if their front office stays in tact. From a talent standpoint they are definitely one of the greatest teams ever assembled, but from a dynasty stand point they have a long way to go.

Ameraves said:

Not to totally dismiss your point, but didn't they put up a stat that he was 0-7 on shots with the game on the line during the playoffs (or something like that?)

And then he went on to miss that one, making it 0-8

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Can see why, settling for a 3 when driving the lane could get you to the line down only 1.

Refs wouldn't call a foul in that situation unless it was an absolute mugging.

Lendarios said:

Curry being the most lethal...

10 seconds left in the clock, your team is losing by 2.
Who gets the shot? Jordan, lebron, curry, koby, or reggy miller?

That is just 4 guys of the top of my head who I trust more than curry.

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At least spell Reggie and Kobe correctly you damn legumer.

Klay will be fine. Yes, rehab sucks, but he'll be back in top form.

KD's outlook is much more grim. Dude went from Arguably Best Basketball Player Alive and may never make another All-NBA team.

zzeris said:

Yes, for multiple reasons but let's start with health. Rightly or wrongly, staying healthy is considered an achievement in this sport and others. There are people today talking about the genius of keeping LBJ and Kawhi rested up throughout their runs. The difference between the Spurs health management and the Raptors. Using the Redskins drama to question if each team's medical staff is equal and how much should top teams use their stars.

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Durability is a thing, but it's mostly an "achievement" in the longer view of a player's career. Tom Brady has been remarkably healthy for his career, but even he missed a season to a torn ACL b/c of one bad/unlucky hit. The play where Klay got hurt probably happens X amount of times all year and doesn't result in that specific injury at that time. I agree that durability is a thing (look at Alex Ovechkin in hockey) over the long haul, and yes teams can make all sorts of improvements to training staff, rest for star players, and recovery methods...but any season/series/game can be derailed by an injury that ultimately is just unlucky/unavoidable.

Obviously there's the cliche "everyone is banged up this time a year" that you hear from every team in every sport...but we can't pretend that certain injuries to certain players at certain times are far more impactful than others, and sometimes it's just bad luck and you can't prevent/avoid them. I think asking questions about earlier in the series is valid, but the impact of the crazy injuries they had at the worst times this year shouldn't just be brushed aside like "oh they're stacked". Yeah, until the injuries just keep knocking out all the biggest pieces at the time.

zzeris said:

True and I don't even agree with the injury argument even though it is there. Look at the Finals. Curry, 40+ minutes per game. Green, the same. Klay was 30+ every game he played. Iggy was around 30 most games. What injuries exactly kept them from playing? Wasn't Kawhi slightly injured as well? Sounds like an excuse to me. When you get down to it, this loaded squad was beat by a team with Lowry, Siakam, Green, and Marc Gasol as the backbone of the unit. There is no way they should have beat such a stacked unit even without KD.

Injuries knocked them out so bad....they cruised to the Finals without KD. Curry was outplayed by Fred VanVleet that final game. Tell me again it was injuries.....

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I mean I think it's fair for people to point out Klay getting hurt with ~14 minutes to go in the game and they're winning when he goes out might have had an effect on it. Even missing the rest of the game he was still leading scorer last night with 30 points. They win last night, it's a tie series and they're a win away from 3 peat, 4 in 5, etc...

People want to make it seem like without Durant that Golden State is the same team that went 73-9 the season before he got there. But it's not true at all. Their bench/depth is nothing like it was then and if you think Iggy and Green are as good as they were 3-4 years ago you're crazy. That said, Toronto played well enough and Kawhi is a beast so it's not like they were scrubs either. Even if Golden State was fully healthy I think Toronto would win some games. Going to 5 straight finals, winning 3 and having this season derailed by injuries is historic. Comparing teams from different eras is pretty pointless so saying that they're better or worse than X, Y, or Z team doesn't really matter. The point is for this era it's an amazing run.