Altered Carbon

Cybsled

Cybsled

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Ok I have never read the books, but the show gave me the distinct impression that those Songspire trees or whatever seem to be the same type of tech as the stacks (stacks and the tree have the same type of glow). They do say in the show that the alien tech/metal is what made stack technology possible. The Envoys also made their base right under one (seems a little too coincidental, esp considering the creator of stacks probably picked it out).

So do we find out later the ancient aliens basically all uploaded themselves Avatar-style into the trees and the network they created? And are there repercussions for the stacks based on this (ie, intent to be networked vs. individual)?
 
Hatorade

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Cybsled said:
Ok I have never read the books, but the show gave me the distinct impression that those Songspire trees or whatever seem to be the same type of tech as the stacks (stacks and the tree have the same type of glow). They do say in the show that the alien tech/metal is what made stack technology possible. The Envoys also made their base right under one (seems a little too coincidental, esp considering the creator of stacks probably picked it out).

So do we find out later the ancient aliens basically all uploaded themselves Avatar-style into the trees and the network they created? And are there repercussions for the stacks based on this (ie, intent to be networked vs. individual)?
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Huge book spoilers but some what vague.
connected yes but no effect to humans find out later the aliens are extinct but their souls live on to fight off a deadly AI edge of known universe
 
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Fight

Fight

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I watched the whole series.

The more they got into the story and the more broad it got, the worse it got. The script was sloppy. Too many uninteresting story threads, even if they did find a way for most of them to come back together in the end. It was at its best when it was simply a ‘who, why, and how’ murder mystery. They had 6 really good hours of TV that they stretched to 10.

The world building and set pieces were very impressive. The acting was decent enough. The futuristic sci-fi concepts were incredible.

The flashback episode really sidetracked the shows momentum. The sister reveal was nonsense and her motivations for all the bullshit are very stupid. They just tried to do too much, with a story and a world that was fine without it.

I enjoyed more of it than I disliked, so it is a 3/5 stars show at the end of the day. The writers let the rest of the production down.
 
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Zaara

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Someone said it best; it starts out feeling like high-budget HBO and devolves into SyFy shlock. Judgement was largely withheld until that awful, stupid elevator scene. Let's have a gory and action-packed sequence, complete with nonsensical heroic death, while interspersing shots of our main character running up and down flights of stairs.

Script + the acting jobs made it worse. How many shows/series have to have the flashback character that deus ex machinas the lead character? 15 minutes of softcore torture porn and gooblygook to explain around Kovacs being able to break a computer simulation with his mind, give me a fucking break.

I think the fundamental break of the show was that there was no stakes to really care about- and while it may be an inherent theme of the show on purpose, it made it tremendously hard to give a fuck when bad things happened to protagonists. Pounds of flesh ripped from your body with a death lotus until your blood paints the wall? Next episode you'll have a 2 minute hospital scene that ends with super cybernetic robot arm and pit fighting the day after. 'I'm going to cry and be upset if you start carving up the body of my ex boyfriend as coercion tactic, despite the fact I have a magic medi pen.' Just stuff like that.
 
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TJT

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Fight said:
I watched the whole series.

The more they got into the story and the more broad it got, the worse it got. The script was sloppy. Too many uninteresting story threads, even if they did find a way for most of them to come back together in the end. It was at its best when it was simply a ‘who, why, and how’ murder mystery. They had 6 really good hours of TV that they stretched to 10.

The world building and set pieces were very impressive. The acting was decent enough. The futuristic sci-fi concepts were incredible.

The flashback episode really sidetracked the shows momentum. The sister reveal was nonsense and her motivations for all the bullshit are very stupid. They just tried to do too much, with a story and a world that was fine without it.

I enjoyed more of it than I disliked, so it is a 3/5 stars show at the end of the day. The writers let the rest of the production down.
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I think what pisses me off the most is that if the sister contacted him at the first opportunity once he was sleeved on Earth.

The entire rest of the plot wouldn't have even happened because he never would have became attached to Ortega or any of that shit at all.
 
TJT

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Zaara said:
Someone said it best; it starts out feeling like high-budget HBO and devolves into SyFy shlock. Judgement was largely withheld until that awful, stupid elevator scene. Let's have a gory and action-packed sequence, complete with nonsensical heroic death, while interspersing shots of our main character running up and down flights of stairs.

Script + the acting jobs made it worse. How many shows/series have to have the flashback character that deus ex machinas the lead character? 15 minutes of softcore torture porn and gooblygook to explain around Kovacs being able to break a computer simulation with his mind, give me a fucking break.

I think the fundamental break of the show was that there was no stakes to really care about- and while it may be an inherent theme of the show on purpose, it made it tremendously hard to give a fuck when bad things happened to protagonists. Pounds of flesh ripped from your body with a death lotus until your blood paints the wall? Next episode you'll have a 2 minute hospital scene that ends with super cybernetic robot arm and pit fighting the day after. 'I'm going to cry and be upset if you start carving up the body of my ex boyfriend as coercion tactic, despite the fact I have a magic medi pen.' Just stuff like that.
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The book torture scenes were way worse. He was put into female sleeves and rape tortured for like a week and it only stopped because the torturers were sure that he was not who they thought he was. Which was that cop sleeve they found him in. They believed the Envoy bit and were so fucking terrified of the Envoys (like everyone in the Protectorate is) they let him go. He then slags the entire clinic down to the last man and blows their stacks because they pissed him off.
 
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Hatorade

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TJT said:
The book torture scenes were way worse. He was put into female sleeves and rape tortured for like a week and it only stopped because the torturers were sure that he was not who they thought he was. Which was that cop sleeve they found him in. They believed the Envoy bit and were so fucking terrified of the Envoys (like everyone in the Protectorate is) they let him go. He then slags the entire clinic down to the last man and blows their stacks because they pissed him off.
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Yeah best part of the book, RDed every fucker in the place. Y'all should check out the audio book.
 
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j00t

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I just finished the show, ultimately I enjoyed it, I thought there were some really brilliant, but underrated moments. Ortega bringing her grandma back in the body of a tatted up thug was awesome. I just loved that whole concept.

I think the ending was consistent with who the bancrofts were, though I think miriam would have fought against what was happening way harder. Laurens going peacefully made sense, he realized how much if a monster he actually was. Miriam knew she was a monster but was fine with because she could get away with it. Her just sulking away with the police was very against her character.

So, my main problem with the story, is just the concept of individual. I know that's a big part of the world, but in a world where anyone can just change sleeves, how does anyone know who anyone actually is? How many body snatching conspiracy theories are there NOW and that's basically impossible. Once it becomes a regular, everyday occurrence how does any kind of evidence at a crime scene, or video serveillance even work anymore? Yeah I saw that guy rob that store! That wasn't me! Someone stole my sleeve!
 
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TJT

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j00t said:
So, my main problem with the story, is just the concept of individual. I know that's a big part of the world, but in a world where anyone can just change sleeves, how does anyone know who anyone actually is? How many body snatching conspiracy theories are there NOW and that's basically impossible. Once it becomes a regular, everyday occurrence how does any kind of evidence at a crime scene, or video serveillance even work anymore? Yeah I saw that guy rob that store! That wasn't me! Someone stole my sleeve!
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This is solved in a few ways in the series. One is that sleeving is super traumatic to most people. They wouldn't do it willingly unless they absolutely had to. Or were specially trained to minimize the trauma of switching sleeves like Envoys were. Second is that in Virtual (like Matrix) you only appear as you believe yourself to look. Thus, most people appear as their birth sleeve 99% of the time in Virtual and again only specially trained people like Envoys or totally insane people like Dimitri the Twin can effectively alter that in any way.

Switching sleeves also requires some advanced technology. The supercomputer or whatever they needed to do it in the book was the size of an apartment. Later on characters talk about how the tech will inevitably reach portable levels and how much that will change society even more.
 
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Cybsled

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If they had maintained that, then Ortega's grandmother basically asking that she not get spun up again would make even more sense.
 
Caliane

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When was this written? I find the need for a magic metal to explain mind backups odd. Thats a technology we are heading towards without any need for magic metal. the need to justify it with space metal is strange.

Also, really the timescales drive me nuts. He was on ice for 250 years? ffs they talk about it like it was maybe 30. "we don't use those hotels anymore." why would they even exist 250 years later? he is up to date on current culture and technology, just immediately. sleeving, etc apparently hasn't changed in 250 years.

like 250 years in OUR past is 1768. that is BEFORE the american revolution. This guy should have awoken to a world he barely understands, and doesn't even begin to recognize.

yes, this would effect the very old people as well. There is a reason its a classic trope of vampires being scared of the modern world. The "Meths" would be old and unchanging, while the poor, and young would live in a world totally unlike anything they can imagine. Language, everything would be different.
 
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Noodleface

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I went into this really loving the premise and by the end of the season I felt really let down. His sister was pretty lame and for some reason I found her face oddly disgusting to me .

Ortega on the other hand had a grade A body
 
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Caliane

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yeah, Ortega. whew..

Also, ps. I am just hitting lizzie-time dilation, im a ninja now!
and, naked sister throwing body after body at ortega... for some reason..

Jesus christ, this left turn into totally fucking retarded, is jarring.

oh, and lizzie is now psychic.. ffs. And as people stated... remotely uploaded to a super assassin, shapechanging body. Which also, some random security guy just decides to rape for some reason.
How is this even the same show?
 
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Cybsled

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Caliane said:
When was this written? I find the need for a magic metal to explain mind backups odd. Thats a technology we are heading towards without any need for magic metal. the need to justify it with space metal is strange.

Also, really the timescales drive me nuts. He was on ice for 250 years? ffs they talk about it like it was maybe 30. "we don't use those hotels anymore." why would they even exist 250 years later? he is up to date on current culture and technology, just immediately. sleeving, etc apparently hasn't changed in 250 years.

like 250 years in OUR past is 1768. that is BEFORE the american revolution. This guy should have awoken to a world he barely understands, and doesn't even begin to recognize.

yes, this would effect the very old people as well. There is a reason its a classic trope of vampires being scared of the modern world. The "Meths" would be old and unchanging, while the poor, and young would live in a world totally unlike anything they can imagine. Language, everything would be different.
Click to expand...

I think the main premise speaks to the fact that advancement has been now become the domain of the wealthy. Everyone else has the outdated scraps.
 
j00t

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The ultimate payoff of the show, and maybe moreso in the book, is that meths become less and less human and more and more sociopathic the longer they live. Kovacs hints that pretty strongly in the beginning but I think just flat out saying that would have been a better option. It would have made rei's behavior make a lot more sense. Her love for her brother is the only humane thing she has left and subconsciously it makes sense to cling onto that so strongly. It would also explain why Kovacs was so okay with the idea of his own real death.

That being said I think him going after quell at the end was a bad idea. Kovacs wanted her to still be alive, obviously, but quell WANTED her own death. It'd It be going against her last wishes
 
Lanx

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Cybsled said:
If they had maintained that, then Ortega's grandmother basically asking that she not get spun up again would make even more sense.
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The way Ortega made it seem like everyone rents some hooker for Cinco de mayo.
 
j00t

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Lanx said:
The way Ortega made it seem like everyone rents some hooker for Cinco de mayo.
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I'm assuming that was done differently in the books. It had some really interesting implications, though. Same with lizzie's parents being in male bodies. How attached are you to the body vs the soul?

But it also implied that resleeving, even on a temporary basis is much more common than than the rest of the show stated. I mean, Ortega just resleeved her grandma into a detainee without anyone knowing, as i IMAGINE she would have lost her job otherwise.
 
TJT

TJT

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j00t said:
I'm assuming that was done differently in the books. It had some really interesting implications, though. Same with lizzie's parents being in male bodies. How attached are you to the body vs the soul?

But it also implied that resleeving, even on a temporary basis is much more common than than the rest of the show stated. I mean, Ortega just resleeved her grandma into a detainee without anyone knowing, as i IMAGINE she would have lost her job otherwise.
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The whole Cinco De Mayo wasn't a thing and I don't even remember Ortega's mom being a character. Lizzy wasn't a character so much as a concept. Lizzy was bodiless due to being murdered and the dad couldn't afford to re-sleeve her or the wife. Sleeves in general being analgous to having a mortgage on a house. Lizzy's mom was 1337 Hacker who did end up being cross-sleeved to help them. But I forget aspects of this. Just keep in mind that sleeving into a new body is about as traumatizing as having a heart transplant in terms of the stress it puts on most people.

Temporary re-sleeving was done into synth sleeves. The most trash tier possible. Takeshi mentioned that they would put him into them when he had court dates after being apprehended for his various crimes.
 
Lanx

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TJT said:
The whole Cinco De Mayo wasn't a thing and I don't even remember Ortega's mom being a character. Lizzy wasn't a character so much as a concept. Lizzy was bodiless due to being murdered and the dad couldn't afford to re-sleeve her or the wife. Sleeves in general being analgous to having a mortgage on a house. Lizzy's mom was 1337 Hacker who did end up being cross-sleeved to help them. But I forget aspects of this. Just keep in mind that sleeving into a new body is about as traumatizing as having a heart transplant in terms of the stress it puts on most people.

Temporary re-sleeving was done into synth sleeves. The most trash tier possible. Takeshi mentioned that they would put him into them when he had court dates after being apprehended for his various crimes.
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So is the whole, son has a 3d printer to play daddy, and sister takes out mom cuz she has sex enhancements,also not book source? Since if the son wanted to play daddy, he'd have to go through some shit ...

And really the only one that should be able to quick sleeve is Rey, since she's an envoy?
 
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