amanda berry found..more importantly, awesome black man in cleveland.

Mikhail Bakunin_sl said:

What about agents of the state that forcibly remove people from their homes and imprison people for doing things that hurt no one (or no one but themselves)?

Click to expand...

If you want to discuss the topic of the thread I'd be happy to converse with you. That animal who kidnapped those women to use as sex slaves needs to die.

Tummysticks_sl said:

If you want to discuss the topic of the thread I'd be happy to converse with you. That animal who kidnapped those women to use as sex slaves needs to die.

Click to expand...

I don't disagree, but I also don't think the state has the moral standing to carry out the sentence (for the reasons I just gave and others). It's all related.

It's one of those things. In a perfect world there would be no capital offenses. If this world is perfect the men live in it are not.

We do kill much less readily than we used to. At least in official and pseudo-official capacities. It hasn't been all that long since public hangings and lynchings were culturally acceptable. It's odd in a way. As the population blooms, this power granted the State wanes. In another way it makes perfect sense. I don't know that this guy deserves to be murdered, but I do agree that the question should at least be put to a judge and jury. Blood for blood doesn't seem like justice, I agree with that. But it may not be about justice. I don't personally think that execution ever is, really. Doesn't mean he should be allowed to live.

That seems kind of backwards to me, that because the world is imperfect there should be such a thing as capital punishment. If anything that is the argument I would use against it.

Oh. It is an argument against capital punishment. If your aim is institutional justice. But it may not be about that.

If it made any sense at all an argument against capital punishment would ACTUALLY be an argument against capital punishment. Heh. It's very much an emotional issue. We haven't outgrown vengeance. I kinda doubt we ever will. But we can cage it, and that's what the death penalty is good for. Might be the only thing it's good for.

Iannis_sl said:

Oh. It is an argument against capital punishment. If your aim is institutional justice. But it may not be about that.

If it made any sense at all an argument against capital punishment would ACTUALLY be an argument against capital punishment. Heh. It's very much an emotional issue. We haven't outgrown vengeance. I kinda doubt we ever will. But we can cage it, and that's what the death penalty is good for. Might be the only thing it's good for.

Click to expand...

My argument that some people just need to die is not about vengeance; it's much colder than that. This dude is an animal, and if he was ever released into the world again he absolutely would do that shit again. He has perpetrated irreparable harm against three, possibly four people (that we know of) and for whatever reason, society thinks its safer and more humane to just lock him up for life? Nay, sir. We don't owe him that. He's already taken too much from us and on the off chance he were to escape, the risk of him doing this to someone else is pretty much 100 percent. He's incapable of contributing anything to society that comes anywhere near offsetting what he has taken from it, and society would be better off eliminating the danger he poses by eliminating him.

This guy is an outlier though, we aren't finding dudes like this to execute every other month. The exception doesn't justify the rule. Generally capital punishment as an institution in the US is fatally flawed and there are still myriad reasons why it should simply be abolished.

Wouldn't society be more safe to address underlying causes for violence rather than carry out symbolic executions on suspected offenders? I never got how the people I know most likely to say they support "limited government" also support capital punishment. Shit doesn't even go together.

chaos_sl said:

Wouldn't society be more safe to address underlying causes for violence rather than carry out symbolic executions on suspected offenders? I never got how the people I know most likely to say they support "limited government" also support capital punishment. Shit doesn't even go together.

Click to expand...

Never seemed to mesh well with Christianity either but rationalizations abound.

BrutulTM_sl said:

So are you guys okay with the death penalty if there is absolutely no doubt as to guilt? I'm talking like confession + eye witnesses + DNA evidence + video tape? When the criminal himself isn't denying the act?

Click to expand...

Nope. Government shouldn't be killing people.

Bring back lynch mobs.

Completely unrelated to this case, but I wonder how much crime would drop if there were no black people

Noodleface_sl said:

Completely unrelated to this case, but I wonder how much crime would drop if there were nopeople in desperate situations due to socioeconomic disparity.

Click to expand...

FTFY