TrollfaceDeux
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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as long as scott haslargecreative control over update changes for the western audience, i am on board.
Archeage
- Thread starter tad10
- Start date
I think the climate has changed for this type of thing, honestly. A LOT has happened in the industry since the old Bartle sheep/wolves thing. I use as evidence that the most popular game in the world by a significant margin is a purely PvP game that illicits frustration levels that match (and potentially exceed) the frustration of original EQ. PvP used to be a fringe activity was viewed by the mainstream players as a "distraction" from the game, rather than the game itself, but looking at how people play games now and what they are interested in, that's the largely the view of the last generation of gamers (i.e. my generation and most of the people on this board). I suspect that the core target audience you want in your game will be more willing to deal with PvP adversity and respond to it as if its part of the game, rather than a mere distraction. IMO, this should help, rather than hurt ArcheAge.
That's my theory at least.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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You've (or rather XL Games) has already "WoWd" things up with dailies.
The thing is, you can get the same effect of dailies without putting actual dailies into the game - that's why I mentioned ye old Bindings of the Windseeker (UR drop from MC in Vanilla WoW).
Now take the 1.0 Changes - XL implemented dailies in the stupdies way possible for their game. Instead of requiring people to run the same 2-3 dungeons and do the same 2-3 silly quests for Delphi coins all they had to do was something less stupid like the following:
Put in a World Drop which I'll call "Life Essence" for the sake of this example Let 10 Life Essences be exchanged for one 1 Delphic Coin by some NPC.
Availability of the LE:
Rare drop from PvP (encourages PvP - every 20 or so kills an LE can drop)
UR drop from same or Higher level Mobs (encourages exploring/mob grinding - every 50 or so kills an LE can drop)
Drop from Final Boss Mob in Instance (encourages instance running - Final Boss Mob in an instance can drop 1-3 LE in addition to other loot)
Drop from World Raid Boss (encourages killing raid bosses - Raid Boss drops 4-6 LE in addition to other loot)
Appropriate drop rates/exchange rates/etc can be fixed in testing - but the point is this encourages players to keep playing every day without making it a daily grind.
Edit: Now of course drops like my "Life Essences" are just another type of badge, and as we all know badges suck in their own way, but they suck less than pure dailies. In an ideal world, there would be very few or no instances, o instead of needing to use badges to slow down content, players would contest each other for the content.
@1.0 Changes - the ArcheAge Source linked above aren't complaining about the class balance changes - indeed they seem overall supportive of the 1.0 class changes. The complaints are pretty specific: (1) dailies suck, (2) trading has been over-simplified, in particular they complain about not being able to do long trade routes to the other continent and (3) not related to 1.0 crafters complain about the post CBT4.0 RNG crafting (preferring the CBT4.0 crafting).
Look, I haven't played so I'm just relaying the AAS complaints (I'm still too daunted by the wall of Korean text to try), but I have played other MMOs so I know that dailies are a terrible idea and I have played the windows RNG, so I can see why RNG based crafting would suck. Trading I've got no clue or experience but the AAS folks seem very adamant that the 1.0 trading changes were bad, so I'm going to assume they know what they're talking about as their other complaints (Dailies, RNG Crafting) make sense to me.
Finally, since I know this is going to be sold on the FTP/Cash Shop model - consider trying something different and offering a subscription only, no cash shop server. I await the day when FTP MMOs go the way of the dodo.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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It seems like the 1.0 class changes addressed the stunlock issue you brought up - the AAS folks were fine with the class changes. But this reminds me of another issue I didn't mention, AAS also flipped out that as part of putting in dailies XL Games created a non-PvP area on the North Continent, which from an outside perspective, does seem a bit weird for a PvP game when that continent was supposed to be all pvp, all the time, IIRC. Which I think supports your point about dealing with PvP adversity ;-)
Also EVE Online...
Muligan
Trakanon Raider
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Amen Tad to your last comment. I'm ok with Cash Shop for aesthetic purposes such as skins (LoL) or appearance slots (EQII) but not as means for primary funding. It can be an icing and a way for their company just to get some extra cash on the side but I am all for the FTP crap to go away.
I also agree with your dailies comment. I have not played AA either but your comments are spot on for any MMO now and in the future.
I also agree with your dailies comment. I have not played AA either but your comments are spot on for any MMO now and in the future.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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Yeah I can live with cosmetics, though I don't really like them.
Also, @Hartsman, as someone else said, you should sell alpha access - all the cool people are doing it, and frankly I usually have more fun in betas than live these days.
If history if any indication the answer to that is no. Anything is possible though.
Most likely we will be on some delayed translated patch schedule with translation changes being 99% of what gets changed.
One thing to keep in mind is that ArcheAge Source is a pretty small community, with an accordingly narrow perspective. As I mentioned above, this game (as it currently exists) is catering to two distinct crowds. The SWG crowd (i don't want to farm for epics, go play that game somewhere else, I want to pimp my house and raise sheeps, cattles and pigs, oh my) and the PRX type crowd (FOR SPARTA!) The systems that are currently in the game are for those players. That said, the TARGET audience of this game, is literally everyone. You can see it in the update. XL obviously doesn't consider this game a PvP only game. They consider this game a world where you can do as much stuff as they can possibly cram into the development cycle.
The Delphi Coin change most likely was the result of the people that wanted to raise sheeps saying that they don't have a lot of high level stuff to do. So, XL said, "here, have some high level stuff to do in the high level common area," to which the response was "I'm a mere sheeps herder, sire, i cant compete with the Spartans." So, /pvp off. Sure, the PvPers complain because they cant kill the sheeps-herders, but I'm sure the response would be "go fight over the giant castles and pirate trading routes we gave you...this isn't your part of the game."
I wouldnt be surprised if they added straight up raid zones, etc to the game to try and grab the type of people that populate (or used to populate) this board either, but its just not in (or I should say wasnt in). I wouldnt at all think that they are trying to "WoW up" this game in any way shape are form. They are very likely going to "everything up this game". There are dangers of doing it this way, of course, namely that by doing too many things OK, you do nothing well, but that is a very different issue than worrying the game wll be a WoW clone. I will be shocked if that happens.
It is 1000x closer to SWG than WOW.
Realistically, not many publishers will have "creative control" of anything. This is especially true for regional publishers for an existing title (as opposed to development publishers). Think of it this way. You just spent the last 5 years of your life making a game be as good as you think it can be. You aren't really going to listen to someone from another country that looked at your game for 3 months say "redo the quest system." After all, the dev team has its own shit to do.
At best, a publisher can get certain limited features turned off if its not too much work or if you can show a good local law issue to do it. Perfect example is stuff like Korean player markets in towns. That is a feature that is not very western friendly, so some publishers can get it removed (En Masse for TERA for example). But this game isn't Trion's creative vision. Its XL Games creative vision. Trion's role in this process, I assume, is to do everything in its power to support the game from an infrastructure and marketing perspective. If your billing is fucked, or if you have a great Customer Service rep, blame/thank Trion. If none of your friends from Utah heard about the game, that is mostly Trion's fault. But, if you think your sheeps should be worth 10x more on the open market and the PvE loot is ruining the economy, or if you think necro warrior combos are OP, that is most likley all XL Games' fault.
@Oloh All the videos I've seen of this game make me pretty excited for an eventual NA release. I played L2 from CB-C5 and loved every bit of it. Will AA be 'that game' that feels similar in play style?
Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
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I think that's just a matter of a wrong premise. Everyone going into a LoL match obviously expects to drive his enemies before him and hear the lamentation of the women. But LoL by definition in a situation of consensual PVP. However, in an MMO that has more activities then PVP this changes, and there are times you go in with the expectation of farming 100 wool, running a dungeon, camping that mini pet spawn or whatthefuckever. In all those situations people that enjoy consensual pvp are still your sheep, even if they are wolves when looking to gank unsuspecting sheep or seaching for challenging pvp.
Wasnt it always a pvp game that was the most popular game in the world, starting with DOOM? (WoW wouldnt count as a pvp game but the CoD/Counterstrikes were more popular at the time I think, just not bringing in the dough since no sub?)
Yeah, if you were a die hard Lineage 2 fan, you will probably like ArcheAge out of the box.
--Oloh, 64 Dark Avenger, Bartz (retired)
Really happy to hear that. I've been wanting a game that felt like L2 ever since I stopped playing.
75 SH & 78 BD - Gustin. NA/EU 1st Antharas
There are27 million people a daythat play a game that its sole focus is "to drive his enemies before him and hear the lamentation of the women." My point is that there are plenty enough wolves to make a PvP focused game without worrying too much about scaring all the sheep away. The notion (eloquently characterized by Bartle) that wolves feed off sheep and if the sheep leave, the wolves will starve might have been representative of the population at one time, but it is not anymore. As games specialize to accommodate the more particular tastes in the market (which most people agree is happening), making a Game of Wolves, is not a bad idea and, if you believe that MOBAs share significantly in the MMORPG market, then it is actually a no-brainer.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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Speaking as a non-pvper (I quite Emerald Dream when I was unable to complete my blasted lands quest chain because some goon rogue 4 levels above me sat and camped the area for two days and the horde/alliance imbalance suggested that that problem was only going to get worse) the problem isn't PvP per se.
The problem is lack of consequences for PvP - particularly with the common two faction system. I didn't mind having to deal with the goon rogue - he was just another obstacle. I minded the fact that there was no downside to him ganking me. No faction hit, no Wanted poster, No increase in notoriety.
If you're going to mix sheep and wolves in one environment then their have to be consequences for the WvS PvP. I gather archeage has jails and prison - one of the reasons I'm willing to check it out despite my normal "fuck PvP" response.
Random Feature 01 - Composing Songs
I'll try to dig up some videos that give a realistic view of some of the more interesting gameplay elements. The first was something Scott alluded to that is a fun feature for the SWG crowd...the ability to make your own in game music. Basically, you get components from fishing and buy some stuff from NPCs so that you can create a song that you can play with different instruments. It is a crafting skill and the higher your skill,the longer songs you can create. The first example is a short video of a player made song:
The second video is a video of how to make it (which shows the crafting system generally):
I'll gather up some other videos that show various aspects of the game and how they play out.
I'll try to dig up some videos that give a realistic view of some of the more interesting gameplay elements. The first was something Scott alluded to that is a fun feature for the SWG crowd...the ability to make your own in game music. Basically, you get components from fishing and buy some stuff from NPCs so that you can create a song that you can play with different instruments. It is a crafting skill and the higher your skill,the longer songs you can create. The first example is a short video of a player made song:
The second video is a video of how to make it (which shows the crafting system generally):
I'll gather up some other videos that show various aspects of the game and how they play out.
Random Feature 02 - Speed Racers & Race Track
Random Feature 03 - Soccer Game (while in Prison)
Last one for the day.
Random Feature 03 - Soccer Game (while in Prison)
Last one for the day.
shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
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