Ashes of Creation

Mr. Sox

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My com was a fiasco. By far European players outnumber the regular players in these type of games but their ping rates are so bad to the us. Steven decided not to do añ European hub cause of refund policies . Expect Jahlon to get revenge on Steven.
 
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Cukernaut

Sharpie Markers Aren't Pens
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My com was a fiasco. By far European players outnumber the regular players in these type of games but their ping rates are so bad to the us. Steven decided not to do añ European hub cause of refund policies . Expect Jahlon to get revenge on Steven.

i love how he talks about all these people he has met as if he was at their house last night
 
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Mr. Sox

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I chatted with ashes Pi people industry insiders and giga bear for more than 2 years. At one time ashes had an voice chat. Good times.
 
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Mr. Sox

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Ask around about Bart. They will tell you. People watch a couple of live streams and think they know it all. Sheesh.
 
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Uriel

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moonarchia

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Then for you its DOA. This is a PVP game first - open world pvp isn't an option; you're fucking participating if you like it or not.
Not just me, most of the MMO playerbase. So I hope they weren't planning to be bigger than niche and are budgeting accordingly.
 

Uriel

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Not just me, most of the MMO playerbase. So I hope they weren't planning to be bigger than niche and are budgeting accordingly.

BDO is doing very well, and has only been getting more popular the last 2 years as p2w has become less of a thing. Archeage when it came out was very popular, until the devs ruined the game and added more and more p2w. EVE has always been popular. An mmo doesn't need WoW or FF14 numbers to be successful, and there's plenty of players for AoC to grab if they deliver a good game. Steven has repeatedly said the game isn't for everyone, they're not designing it for everyone, and they're ok with that.
 

moonarchia

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BDO is doing very well, and has only been getting more popular the last 2 years as p2w has become less of a thing. Archeage when it came out was very popular, until the devs ruined the game and added more and more p2w. EVE has always been popular. An mmo doesn't need WoW or FF14 numbers to be successful, and there's plenty of players for AoC to grab if they deliver a good game. Steven has repeatedly said the game isn't for everyone, they're not designing it for everyone, and they're ok with that.
Fair enough. I hope they succeed, but unless they get a big base in Asia somehow they are going to have a very limited market. I have no idea how much they have put into it, or what size of staff they hope to keep for bug fixes and expansions. That's what I mean by budgeting accordingly. There are a shitload of New Worlds and City of Heroes in the trash bin of MMO history that vastly overestimated the popularity of PVP in the West.
 
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Uriel

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Fair enough. I hope they succeed, but unless they get a big base in Asia somehow they are going to have a very limited market. I have no idea how much they have put into it, or what size of staff they hope to keep for bug fixes and expansions. That's what I mean by budgeting accordingly. There are a shitload of New Worlds and City of Heroes in the trash bin of MMO history that vastly overestimated the popularity of PVP in the West.

I believe Steven surely must understand the audience for these types of games, since he was a hardcore gamer/guild leader in L2 and Archeage, maybe others too but I know of those 2. Going with a sub model + cosmetic shop (they've said the best cosmetics come from achieving stuff in game, we'll see on that) is the best route for this type of game imo, any p2w is a death sentence in the west and F2P isn't enough to fund it without adding P2W which basically destroys the game (the cash grab model).
 

moonarchia

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I believe Steven surely must understand the audience for these types of games, since he was a hardcore gamer/guild leader in L2 and Archeage, maybe others too but I know of those 2. Going with a sub model + cosmetic shop (they've said the best cosmetics come from achieving stuff in game, we'll see on that) is the best route for this type of game imo, any p2w is a death sentence in the west and F2P isn't enough to fund it without adding P2W which basically destroys the game (the cash grab model).
Going by the examples we have seen before... Brad, Alex, et al, he understands what *he* wants from that sort of game. Unless he was smart enough to hire people to do some actual market analysis before starting all this up, results may vary.
 

zombiewizardhawk

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BDO is doing very well, and has only been getting more popular the last 2 years as p2w has become less of a thing. Archeage when it came out was very popular, until the devs ruined the game and added more and more p2w. EVE has always been popular. An mmo doesn't need WoW or FF14 numbers to be successful, and there's plenty of players for AoC to grab if they deliver a good game. Steven has repeatedly said the game isn't for everyone, they're not designing it for everyone, and they're ok with that.

BDO hasn't been a pvp game since 2016 when they ruined pvp with all the carebear karma changes.
 
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Sylas

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Not just me, most of the MMO playerbase. So I hope they weren't planning to be bigger than niche and are budgeting accordingly.
uh not sure how you define 'niche' but if you just mean anything less than "10mil WoW at its prime" as niche then yeah, it'll be niche.

I think you are perhaps underestimating the appeal of these types of games. The market has continuously proven that there's at least 1mil active subs for a game like this. That's sustained players after selling 3-4 million boxes. Even Eve, the most successful PVP game to date, sustained 500-600k subs for well over a decade, despite it literally being microsoft excel in space with the worst learning curve ever conceived by man.

My worry isn't that they are overestimating the appeal of this type of game, my worry is about catch up mechanics and "starting late" issues that are rampant throughout PVP games.
A lot of mechanics in this game really cater to first come first serve or "established defenders" vs up start late comers. If day one players have an unassailable advantage over later additions then this game is in trouble.

Despite the meme about blizzard "small indie company" every time they fuck something away, this actually is a small indie company. Self built and self marketed. They won't have New World, Arch Age, Warhammer box sales day one, they'll follow a trajectory more like Eve.

idk their internal metrics or anything but just because you got, for example, 10million people who press the like button on a facebook post doesn't mean you have 10mil people going to buy your shit day one. Maybe 20% of the people who signup for your site, forum, newletter, etc will buy the box and half of those will end up staying subbed past the first month.

I figure they'll sell probably 800k-1mil boxes in the first 3 months and keep about half of them as subs. If the game is good then it'll grow organically up to about a million subscribers after a few million box sales within the first year. If the game is half finished tech demo like New World then it'll crash and burn like New World did.

But if all the world is "owned" by the groups that started day one and none of the later comers can overcome the advantages held by the "established" defenders then this game is also fucked.