Ashes of Creation

Im pretty drunk my guy but I promise it'll release. Quote me on i t if you like but AoC and Riot's game are mcoming, however by then NW will have established it's self as well.

I will be kind of surprised if we get Alpha 2 before summer 2024. They have not even shown all the base classes yet. We will be at the 2 year mark at the end of summer since players have tested it(Alpha 1). They have hinted at new spot testing coming late fall/winter but otherwise still nothing set for Alpha 2. I realize that getting it right is important but there does come a point when too long is just taking too long. At this rate I will actually be retired by the time this game comes out. Its looking very nice but what they have shown up to this point still makes it seem far off for an Alpha 2.

This Wednesday might be a little more interesting as apparently they are showing a boss encounter with the Cyclops.

Yeah, there are two problems with the dev cycle taking forever:

1. There's a window and you can miss it. The UE5 upgrade was to give them cutting edge graphics. If they take another 2 (more?) years it wont be. All the 15 and 20 year old zoomers who watch Asmongold and had this put on their radar three years ago will be at different points in their life by release. The college kids will be in the workforce, the high school kids will either join them or be in college. When Sharif no lifed in Archeage he was in his late 20s. Maybe he'd still do that for another great MMO because he's loaded but how many others his age will be able to? 35 year olds will be 40. 40 year olds will be 45. Some of them are just going to cycle out of the potential playerbase and it's not like the next generation of MMO players (especially PVP-minded ones) is being replenished. Yes, if you release an amazing game it won't matter. But...

2. WHY is it taking so long? Contrary to what another guy said, I dont think there's been much feature creep. There were an ambitious number of features initially planned because it was drawn up by a non-dev on napkins and some of that can be cut back but that doesnt appear to be the problem. We're not being told this is delayed because they cant figure out how to implement dice games in Taverns or their six types of PvP is too many and too hard to balance properly or whatever. They had Alpha 1, got the feedback that their combat sucked, went back to the drawing board and now we're slowly seeing updates to that trickled out. Fixing a critical flaw like that is important and it's good to see addressed - that is an actual showstopper, although you also have to question how something as buttfucking retarded as the "Q" to attack shit being allowed to get past a first pass of internal testing speaks to their competence. I'm willing to grant one pass for something as major as that, especially with an extremely public development, but it can't keep happening. They said UE5 would take 6 months. That means the combat revamp alone is responsible for the other 1.5 years and counting? I dont buy it.

Feature creep shouldn't surprise anyone, for the last couple years many people have noted they're trying to do like 50 different things when admittedly it would be hard for them to deliver and deliver well on 5-10 of those things. Whether or not that is reason for delays, I have no idea, although have to figure it's a good part of it. Without any skin in the game I don't care how long it takes to come out, as long as it's something new that isn't terrible on release. It'll be whatever it ends up being. If people spent money, though, I could get how they'd feel differently, but that was the choice.

Remember what Steven can do a tripleAAA studio can do better. I know somethings and hear some more scary news Steven has taken on a secret partner who is helping him financig things. So far to date he has invested 100 million in the project. Now I know he made a lot of money in SoCal real estate and MLM cancer fruit juice but 100 million? Star Wars costed SOE 300 million to make and New World 500 million. I am going to make this statement. Steven is going to sell out AOC Watch. This why certain questions arent being answered about Cosmetics.

Merrith said:

Feature creep shouldn't surprise anyone, for the last couple years many people have noted they're trying to do like 50 different things when admittedly it would be hard for them to deliver and deliver well on 5-10 of those things. Whether or not that is reason for delays, I have no idea, although have to figure it's a good part of it. Without any skin in the game I don't care how long it takes to come out, as long as it's something new that isn't terrible on release. It'll be whatever it ends up being. If people spent money, though, I could get how they'd feel differently, but that was the choice.

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The worst type of feature creep is the "promised feature but it becomes hard to actually implement as promised". The promised ones are where you run into trouble, because if you over promise and under deliver, it can be a pretty rough death blow to your game in terms of playerbase perception. Remember Horizons? Before it actually got released that is? That MMO got hyped to fuck with all the intricate player races and mechanics and gameplay. Then they launched something that had like 5% of that and what was available was half baked. Game was essentially DOA.

Always have to start with: I don't fucking trust anyone.
That being said, I really do like all the stuff I'm seeing, and as a graphics whore I'm obviously loving the direction there, too. I understand the time concerns, but we've had the Covid Experiment / working from home, plus upgrading the Unreal Engine slowing shit down, so I'm still optimistic. *Fingers still Crossed*

Mr. Sox said:

Remember what Steven can do a tripleAAA studio can do better. I know somethings and hear some more scary news Steven has taken on a secret partner who is helping him financig things. So far to date he has invested 100 million in the project. Now I know he made a lot of money in SoCal real estate and MLM cancer fruit juice but 100 million? Star Wars costed SOE 300 million to make and New World 500 million. I am going to make this statement. Steven is going to sell out AOC Watch. This why certain questions arent being answered about Cosmetics.

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New World did not cost 500 million to make, no where near that amount. I know someone who works for Amazon’s board and he laughed at that number.

Sylas said:

dude claimed star wars galaxies cost Sony Online Entertainment 300mil to make.

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Im sure his retarded ass is referring to Biowares SWTOR.
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What Sox fails to compare is that both SWTOR and NW were both redesigned multiple times, with several design shifts (ie. Pantheons track record). Where as, as far as I know, Sharif has always wanted something comparable to Archeage and has deviated very little from his goals. If anything, I would say the biggest problem they are having as a team right now is that he has a HUGE fucking world to populate and give individual stories too. That major quest line about the sea monster has a lot of shit attached to it, thats very content heavy. Out of an entire 118 (15 castles) nodes, theyre going to have to have quite a bit more than just one fucking major quest line thats essentially the same thing depending on the biome. (Sea Monster, Dragon, etc.)

I want something to play just as bad as the next person. But nothing about this game screams vaporware to me. Even seeing the lurker say hes worried about graphics doesnt make sense - as FFXIV, WOW, ESO, GW2, etc. all are or look like they are from the early 2000's. As for the hype train? It'll be there loud and clear when it launches cause the MMO space is dry as fuck and locusts will visit every fucking game. Especially when there is no barrier to entry. People staying around will largely be dependent upon the cash shop and how obnoxious the PVP may or may not be.

Daidraco said:

What Sox fails to compare is that both SWTOR and NW were both redesigned multiple times, with several design shifts (ie. Pantheons track record). Where as, as far as I know, Sharif has always wanted something comparable to Archeage and has deviated very little from his goals. If anything, I would say the biggest problem they are having as a team right now is that he has a HUGE fucking world to populate and give individual stories too. That major quest line about the sea monster has a lot of shit attached to it, thats very content heavy. Out of an entire 118 (15 castles) nodes, theyre going to have to have quite a bit more than just one fucking major quest line thats essentially the same thing depending on the biome. (Sea Monster, Dragon, etc.)

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Given the scope of the world (or at least what they claim the scope will be), I suspect it will be cut back significantly and they'll just release new chunks to give some meat to their updates. Either that or it will be some bland copy-paste shit that would make FFXIV 1.0 blush that they will flesh out after launch.

One risk with the later option is it will probably depend heavily on player generated content. Any game that leans too heavily on player generated content puts itself at risk - while in some games that can be enough, if the players don't engage enough (or disengage), then you find your game in a death spiral of no content.

Yea so anyway, point is Sox is a fucking moron

Cybsled said:

Given the scope of the world (or at least what they claim the scope will be), I suspect it will be cut back significantly and they'll just release new chunks to give some meat to their updates. Either that or it will be some bland copy-paste shit that would make FFXIV 1.0 blush that they will flesh out after launch.

One risk with the later option is it will probably depend heavily on player generated content. Any game that leans too heavily on player generated content puts itself at risk - while in some games that can be enough, if the players don't engage enough (or disengage), then you find your game in a death spiral of no content.

Click to expand...

The world will not be cut back. They actually expanded the map last year. I would think if the world size had been an issue they would have just changed the map into a way that better allowed for future expansion.

I wish they would have just started with a core 6 classes and then added 2 later. Also, the open sea combat would have been great as being part of an expansion. Its like they want to build a game that has every feature possible with no consideration to the amount of time it will take. I am positive that if they cut some stuff with the caveat that is what being added later, and started alpha 2 with release 6 months later, most would be fine with that. Instead we are looking to get this perfect game with no bugs but it might get released this decade? I really wish they would post a roadmap with timetables that have some variables to them.

Also, yes Sox is an idiot but I think he enjoys being one. It is why he is the only person on my ignore list. A person who posts things that are clearly wrong just for fun, is not somebody I need to read. Those who claim it is fun reading his stuff and responding to it, well ok. I choose to not wrestle with the pig in the mud as I know the pig enjoys it, and I do not.

prove me wrong on my numbers.

The biggest problem is all of the buildings for each race need to be different and not cut and pasted.
which takes time. Steven has already spent 100 million so far you realize that right? He tells everyone him and john are financing it by themselves. you seriously believe that shit. i am telling you MLM Mafia in Vegas is footing the bill. Game development is not cheap.

Stven wants something compared to AA or linerage 2 because his ass got banned from it and then acted like a stubborn demented child when they would take his 10 k bribe at the gaming convention. Now he making his own game to get back at them. He paid his officers in the white order 75k a year to run his RMT operation in AA and you still believe he wont do the same with the chineese gold farmers for AOC.

there is another problem right now with AOC. It's going to be an awesome game, but the problem is they have a lot of other games that similar coming out about the same time. These studios who are making these games have deep pockets and the pool of people is only so big and over the years the pool has gotten smaller. Now what happens when the player base shrinks in Ashes for greener pastures. The world as big as it is is going to look like a vast wasteland and it will coollapse onto it self. But that time Steven will have sold the company off. ONe more thing, Steve is not the owner he is the creative director, and his husband is the CEO. Both people can be replaced by the board at any time. TRust me there is a board. You dont have a board if you spent 100 million dollars.

I am still waiting for you to prove me wrong. "Well, I think you are wrong because" is a cop out. Most players never see the business side of games. let's me ask a question here. How do you know if a movie succeeds at the box office. You take the total cost of the movie x 3= is the break-even point of the movie-the money it took in=successor failure.

(lol + hoarse wheezing)