Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016)
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Caliane
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So, something occurred to me, having an argument with a SJW.
I was discussing how Manga fetishes youth, when she was insisting Manga has better portrayals of men, then american comics. Aka, American comics are all big buff dudes. she countered with Inyasha, Edward from FMA, Tuxedo mask, and some random anime dude. They were all teenagers...
Japan has had this kick for some time, that really makes a taboo of growing old. even 30yr old "heroes" will only look about 20.
Here in the US. we basically only do this to women. for example.
Liam Neeson is 62.
Hugh Jackman is 46.
So, why exactly is a 46yr old Lucy Lawless too old to play Wonder Woman?
I was discussing how Manga fetishes youth, when she was insisting Manga has better portrayals of men, then american comics. Aka, American comics are all big buff dudes. she countered with Inyasha, Edward from FMA, Tuxedo mask, and some random anime dude. They were all teenagers...
Japan has had this kick for some time, that really makes a taboo of growing old. even 30yr old "heroes" will only look about 20.
Here in the US. we basically only do this to women. for example.
Liam Neeson is 62.
Hugh Jackman is 46.
So, why exactly is a 46yr old Lucy Lawless too old to play Wonder Woman?
Void
Experiencer
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Liam Neeson isn't taking his shirt off and trying to be the personification of "perfection." Hugh Jackman is, and worked pretty fucking hard (roids or not, doesn't matter) to make himself look that way. He also plays a character that is supposed to look older. He might not be case if Wolverine were 18, remember. If Lucy Lawless could run around in a skimpy and/or form-fitting outfit and look like a 25-year old, then great, sign me up. But chances are she can't, and doesn't even want to.
Now I get the point you are trying to make, about how men are allowed to get older but women aren't, and I'm sure there is tons of psychology to be done on it. But the standards for a male "action hero" aren't the same that they are for a female one, and whether it is our culture, discrimination, whatever...it is harder for a woman to maintain the "look" that Hollywood demands of female action stars, period.
Now I get the point you are trying to make, about how men are allowed to get older but women aren't, and I'm sure there is tons of psychology to be done on it. But the standards for a male "action hero" aren't the same that they are for a female one, and whether it is our culture, discrimination, whatever...it is harder for a woman to maintain the "look" that Hollywood demands of female action stars, period.
chthonic-anemos
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Women fetish youth here. IDK about other countries but American women are too critical of each other on superficial details. They kind of ignore it during girly films and shows but outside of that genre it's all lol look at this bitch's hair! Wow, such wrinkles. Why did they hire her? She looks like crap. Sometimes I think most women hate each other but that can't actually be possible.. can it?
Anecdotal evidence provided to me by both young and old women alike.
Anecdotal evidence provided to me by both young and old women alike.
Phazael
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I think Lawless could still pull it off, in theory, but there is no way in hell she would want to put in the action sequence work. Her horse accident during Xena essentially ended that part of her career.
A couple of older women who I think could do the part well and would go through the conditioning process would be Famke Jannsen, Rene Russo, or Tricia Helfer. All good actresses with the look and physique to pull off the part and not make it look ridiculous. Jannsen and Russo are part of the marvel movie chain, so that rules them out. Helfer has never done a major movie and she is basically doing the part time while raising a kid thing, so that pretty much rules her out, too. But, I think the greater point is that there are older women who could pull off the part well. But they drew the wrong conclusions from the Man of Steel release and are putting another glorified underwear model along side Cavil.
A couple of older women who I think could do the part well and would go through the conditioning process would be Famke Jannsen, Rene Russo, or Tricia Helfer. All good actresses with the look and physique to pull off the part and not make it look ridiculous. Jannsen and Russo are part of the marvel movie chain, so that rules them out. Helfer has never done a major movie and she is basically doing the part time while raising a kid thing, so that pretty much rules her out, too. But, I think the greater point is that there are older women who could pull off the part well. But they drew the wrong conclusions from the Man of Steel release and are putting another glorified underwear model along side Cavil.
Grimmlokk
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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I agree with Rene Russo. Now quickly, back to the Delorean so we can get leave 1995 and get back to 2014!
That bitch is 60.
Lanx
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no, the reason why most manga has a slim, young dude, is b/c japan is full of fucking slim young dudes, you will find the same thing in manhwa as well, it's the genetics and also the culture now for rail thin, lean dudes.
it's also that way in tv/movies atm as well. muscles really mean shit in asian culture, especially japan, when sumo's are considered athletic gods, i mean wtf.
asians look young, it's genetic, fuck every other race but white ppl look young, unless you're a genetic superstar like jennifer aniston (45 could still pass for a "friend") compared to her friends co-stars.
also wtf, tuxedo mask? inyuasha? animes so old they could get a learners permit.
Gavinmad
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Szlia
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Not to make a manga derail, but in those the characters tend to have the age of the target readers, that's why you have a bazillion of them set in high schools. Everything that targets teenage girls or young women will have youthful and feminine male characters (a very popular sub genre is love stories with dreamy homosexual males). That said, there are a lot of manga targeted at adults with adults characters in them (almost all of Jiro Taniguchi or Kaiji Kawaguchi to mention two masters). The thing is the manga targeted at adults usually don't have the zany flamboyance and over the top dramaturgy of the stuff targeted at teenagers that has the most success outside Japan.
It should be added that there is a strong dominant aesthetic for the stuff targeted at teenagers (the one Caliane mentioned), but a much broader range of aesthetic as soon as you reach things for older readers.
As always there are (mostly older) exceptions: Fist of the North Star comes to mind (muscular lead character older than the target audience), everything that uses the goofy hero as main character (City Hunter, Cobra, Cowboy Bebop, Lupin the 3rd) or things like Golgo 13. Most of these a kinda bridges between stuff targeted at teenagers and stuff targeted at adults, you have more adult themes and characters, but still a lot of action and/or comedy.
In a way, comic book super heroes, who are mostly adults, have the particularity of having different target audiences with the same character. You have your main serie(s) targeted at teenagers, but then you can have authors that shine a new light on the characters, telling more mature stories that benefit from the mythos of the super hero.
It should be added that there is a strong dominant aesthetic for the stuff targeted at teenagers (the one Caliane mentioned), but a much broader range of aesthetic as soon as you reach things for older readers.
As always there are (mostly older) exceptions: Fist of the North Star comes to mind (muscular lead character older than the target audience), everything that uses the goofy hero as main character (City Hunter, Cobra, Cowboy Bebop, Lupin the 3rd) or things like Golgo 13. Most of these a kinda bridges between stuff targeted at teenagers and stuff targeted at adults, you have more adult themes and characters, but still a lot of action and/or comedy.
In a way, comic book super heroes, who are mostly adults, have the particularity of having different target audiences with the same character. You have your main serie(s) targeted at teenagers, but then you can have authors that shine a new light on the characters, telling more mature stories that benefit from the mythos of the super hero.
Kovaks
Mr. Poopybutthole
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I wonder if american comics are really even targeted at teans anymore or if they are like video games where the main audience is Ctual 20-35 year olds. Maybe it is the comics i read.
As for anime a more recent example of bulky protagonists in a more adult series would be Guts from Berserk. Although his counterpart is the wispy little prettyboy so i don't know.
As for anime a more recent example of bulky protagonists in a more adult series would be Guts from Berserk. Although his counterpart is the wispy little prettyboy so i don't know.
Lanx
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Berserk first manga appearance is like 1990, (not recent) pretty much the tail-end of the bulky fist of northstar protagonists. (late 80s)
Szlia
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I forgot the epitome of japanese muscular superhero: Muscle Man!Kinnikuman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It's a comedy manga / anime though.
It's a comedy manga / anime though.
Point on the counterpoint, that makes it worse because it gives those same stupid girls the idea that men should look like he-man when it is just as impossible, and they look nothing like Barbie. (And who the fuck wants them flat assed and rail thin anyway)