California trying GPS-tracking mileage tax for 2016

mkopec_sl said:

So lets see,to drive a car we now have....

Auto Sales tax, used or new...
registration fees
License fees
license plate fees
gas tax
per mile tax
forced insurance which im sure is taxed along the way somehow, maybe even twice.

And absolutely no alternative mass transit system available.

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You forgot toll roads/bridges.

Royal_sl said:

You forgot toll roads/bridges.

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And city stickers.

And smog check fees in CA.

And property taxes in VA

And Tootsie Pop per Lick tax.

Don't forget all the fees related to cocks and cock accessories.

To be fair, Golden Gate bridge tolls heavily subsidize a bus system, and as well as a ferry system. It's all part of the same district/budget.

mkopec_sl said:

Furthermore, whats to stop this GPS data being used in other ways in the future? Like excessive speed tax, getting tickets in the mail. Insurance companies getting on board and charging you per driving habits, now with data to back it up...

They say it wont be, but I would not be surprised they change the rules when all these devices are firmly implanted into every vehicle, better yet, built in by the auto manufacturer because of new NTSB rules or some shit.

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Again, read the article - there's two methods they're going to test - one of which is just an odometer reading. Also, with your list of taxes, it's intended to replace the State gas tax - again, right in the article. Additionally, insurance isn't "forced" universally - there's something like 7 states where insurance is optional.

But definitely the worst way it could be implemented is worrisome - but there's nothing to chicken little about yet - but definitely appropo to nudge for the Odometer based readings if they're going to do it in your area.

But I do agree our mass transit system should be much more robust - it's a travesty in most places. Maryland is considered to be "good" near Baltimore and I consider it unusable compared to my trips to Europe and NYC.

Vaclav_sl said:

but there's nothing to chicken little about yet

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Isn't this the best time? When charging citizens to track their movements is not yet a reality in California?

They're considering it, but they've not even decided on a method of tracking yet - of which one of the two of the test program they're planning to copy IS JUST AN ODOMETER READING.

So 50/50 chance of them even picking the problematic one, in two years.

Being wary and encouraging politicians against the tracking forms makes sense right now - any real worry isn't founded yet though.

TIL Vaclav thinks that politicians have our best interests at heart.

Remember when we heard how TSA body scanners worked? And then it turned out they didn't work the way everyone was told? I think worry is well appropriate.

Arbitrary_sl said:

Remember when we heard how TSA body scanners worked? And then it turned out they didn't work the way everyone was told? I think worry is well appropriate.

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And? I'm starting to think some people don't understand the difference between panicking and being wary.

Being wary and getting the message to the politicians that the form that uses tracking is terrible is sensible and a sign of being wary. Anything beyond that is panic that is not warranted as things stand right now (except maybe in Oregon or whatever that is testing both types - since they're on the cusp, but it's not listed if it's going to be a taxpayer choice on tracking or odometer meter - just that simple detail would make it not panic worthy in places both options are available).

Kill them all.

Big Phoenix_sl said:

Hey guys lets build rail that stops like a bus, carries as many people as a bus, is as fast as a bus, and travels the exact same routes as a bus!

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Is this a dig at the light rail in Phoenix? If so, many lols. Honestly when I first got here I thought it was one of those buses designed to look like trolley cars to be all touristy.

Vaclav_sl said:

And? I'm starting to think some people don't understand the difference between panicking and being wary.

Being wary and getting the message to the politicians that the form that uses tracking is terrible is sensible and a sign of being wary. Anything beyond that is panic that is not warranted as things stand right now (except maybe in Oregon or whatever that is testing both types - since they're on the cusp, but it's not listed if it's going to be a taxpayer choice on tracking or odometer meter - just that simple detail would make it not panic worthy in places both options are available).

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I don't think you understand how this whole government thing works in practice... The ONLY way to popularly affect state or federal legislature is to cause such an outcry that the politicians actually and immediately fear being recalled or replaced in the next election from a single issue. You have to create a media circus. They just do whatever the fuck they want and incumbents stay in forever because not enough people care to vote the other way just because a representative or senator didn't vote for any of the policies a voter actually endorses.

Otherwise it's straight cash. Any company who can sell product will hire lobbyists and create the evidence to back their position to make a profit. Once you let anything get to the point where it's in committee and lobbyists get their paws on it... well too late. If you think a bunch of well thought out letters from prestigious professors or angry columnists is going to change a vote by a guy being given promises for 10k jobs in his district by company XYZ, haha.

Vaclav_sl said:

They're considering it, but they've not even decided on a method of tracking yet - of which one of the two of the test program they're planning to copy IS JUST AN ODOMETER READING.

So 50/50 chance of them even picking the problematic one, in two years.

Being wary and encouraging politicians against the tracking forms makes sense right now - any real worry isn't founded yet though.

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Here's the problem. If it was only an odometer reading they could roll that into yearly state inspections, and they could do it cheaper and more effeciently than whatever this program is. They could revisit a number of current taxes and revise them to help meet their budget shortfalls.

It's an over-reach. It is an affront to the citizenry. It's a subsidy to whoever they're thinking about buying the monitors from, and perhaps it's a local economy initiative making all of those mechanics install them. What it is not is a good public policy. It's not even a good idea.

This is granting government a new power. It's obvious why they don't want to raise the per gallon tax. That -is- regressive. But this... this is not even sensible.

Edit: As far as replacing the state gas tax -- that would be a first. I don't know how much more bald faced a lie can be. Maybe that's what they're proposing. I flat out don't believe them. Even if they made history and repealed a tax while they're facing significant fiscal difficulties, the one that they aim to replace it with is stillworse.