Captain Marvel (2019)

Vandyn · Feb 26, 2019

Lithose said:
It depends, are they here trying to shame people out of speaking out? Then yes, they are both dumb and ignorant, and I'd wager giant hypocrites too. The day these people began using their power to black list, and ruin the lives of others is the day the day it became completely irrational to simply say 'who cares'. Now, if you're that apathetic that you want zero part of politics? Fine. But if someone felt that way, they wouldn't be speaking to the people reacting to the political speech, right?

You see, by engaging, its hypocrisy to say you want to simply be left out of it. If you want to be left alone so badly that you want to ignore what Brie is saying, you should be able to ignore what people here are saying too. Why do you treat these two sides differently? Just enjoy the thread and movie and ignore this, it will pass in a day or two--no big deal. But if someone cares enough to mock people here, but not enough to even say they are offended by this? Well, its clear what they believe in at that point, right? Where is my logic flawed here?

You misunderstand, I could care less whether you speak out or not. I was speaking in generalities that the average movie goer is ignoring whatever political noise there is that surrounds this movie. There are probably a decent number of reasons for it but probably near the top is that they are simply going to see a movie about a fictional comic book character and could care less about anything else. Who exactly is getting mocked in this thread btw? It's not me doing it.

Fucker · Feb 26, 2019

Szlia said:
I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news (well... bad news for you), but Jennifer Lawrence never worked in a Miramax picture.

Silver Linings Playbook was produced by....guess who. She won an Oscar for that. It's not the first time he's been accused of pulling Oscar strings for his tarts, either. Speaking of Oscars, guess who wasn't there this year? HW of course...and JL. She's hanging low because it's an open joke that she sucked her way to the top.

Lithose · Feb 26, 2019

Vandyn said:
You misunderstand, I could care less whether you speak out or not. I was speaking in generalities that the average movie goer is ignoring whatever political noise there is that surrounds this movie. There are probably a decent number of reasons for it but probably near the top is that they are simply going to see a movie about a fictional comic book character and could care less about anything else. Who exactly is getting mocked in this thread btw? It's not me doing it.

The funny part is for all the fucking REEEEing on this board about Brie/SJW in muh Marvel, internationally no one gives a fuck about that and the majority of the domestic movie going audience is just going to go see the Marvel movie anyways if the movie is good.

That's the post which began this chain. But as for your post...why post it? What was important about reminding people who are dissatisfied with Brie's actions that they most likely will not matter? Do you normally say that to people without the intent to deride their opinion as meaningless and/or useless? Because I don't think I've ever approached someone having a discussion and said such a thing without that intent.

And that's fine, but call a spade a spade. I mean, you're absolutely right. But again, when information is used can be just as important as the information. Because forgive me if I missed it, but most people who I was speaking about didn't claim Brie was being an asshole for making idiotic comments about the movie, right? (Even though its clear most people don't care about what Brie says either). The only time those comments happened is in reaction to people complaining about it, which again, means they were directed at the people complaining, not the origination. (And that's important because of how humans tend to adopt social morality/systems. Its all about observation, not necessarily actual beliefs held. So if in a group of 100, 10 people believe in X and 90 in Y--if the Y people remain silent and the X people are very outspoken, the group will eventually adopt X as their 'truth'. That's just how groups of humans work. So its important to understand the flow of information is as important as what the information is. The king'd new wardrobe and all that. )

Regime · Feb 26, 2019

Fucker said:
she sucked her way to the top.

AC fucking DC said:
Hotel, motel
Make you want to cry
Ladies do the hard sell
Know the reason why

Vanessa · Feb 26, 2019

Lithose said:
Its all about observation, not necessarily actual beliefs held. So if in a group of 100, 10 people believe in X and 90 in Y--if the Y people remain silent and the X people are very outspoken, the group will eventually adopt X as their 'truth'. That's just how groups of humans work. So its important to understand the flow of information is as important as what the information is. The king'd new wardrobe and all that. )

May be relevant...may not; if you have time to watch this (16 min). Game is 18 years old, but the message is even MORE relevant today than in 2001. Kojima is a genius.

Cybsled · Feb 26, 2019

I played that game so long ago, I don't recall half of that conversation. But holy shit, Kojima is a genius to be sure.

Merrith · Feb 26, 2019

Lithose said:
TDo you normally say that to people without the intent to deride their opinion as meaningless and/or useless? Because I don't think I've ever approached someone having a discussion and said such a thing without that intent.

Perhaps you haven't, but there's always the possibility someone could be stating something to that effect as a lamentation that a group was too small to be heard or would just be drowned out by the masses? Not even as an active participate in whatever debate, but just as a general "every position/voice should be heard, but unfortunately due to factors outside of your control yours probably will not?

Sentagur · Feb 26, 2019

Lithose said:
The funny part is for all the fucking REEEEing on this board about Brie/SJW in muh Marvel, internationally no one gives a fuck about that and the majority of the domestic movie going audience is just going to go see the Marvel movie anyways if the movie is good.

That's the post which began this chain. But as for your post...why post it? What was important about reminding people who are dissatisfied with Brie's actions that they most likely will not matter? Do you normally say that to people without the intent to deride their opinion as meaningless and/or useless? Because I don't think I've ever approached someone having a discussion and said such a thing without that intent.

And that's fine, but call a spade a spade. I mean, you're absolutely right. But again, when information is used can be just as important as the information. Because forgive me if I missed it, but most people who I was speaking about didn't claim Brie was being an asshole for making idiotic comments about the movie, right? (Even though its clear most people don't care about what Brie says either). The only time those comments happened is in reaction to people complaining about it, which again, means they were directed at the people complaining, not the origination. (And that's important because of how humans tend to adopt social morality/systems. Its all about observation, not necessarily actual beliefs held. So if in a group of 100, 10 people believe in X and 90 in Y--if the Y people remain silent and the X people are very outspoken, the group will eventually adopt X as their 'truth'. That's just how groups of humans work. So its important to understand the flow of information is as important as what the information is. The king'd new wardrobe and all that. )

Some people just want to ignore scumbags who are doing everything to push the Overton window to the extreme and then will wake one day surprised that they too have the nazi label applied to them.
An actor or actress' political opinion should have the same weight as the political opinion of the plumber down at the local pub shooting shit after his 4th beer.
They large number of twitter followers and fans the actors can have over inflate the self worth and lead them to think their opinions are worth more than average Joes.
That kind of thing needs to be discouraged, and refusing to watch a stupid movie is a perfectly good way to do that.

They are here to entertain us and get paid handsomely in the process, everything else is a breach of the social contract and they can go fuck themselves if they want to preach at me.

Fadaar · Feb 26, 2019

do asians like white women? like, is this going to bomb in china like black panther? curious to see the international numbers compared to domestic

Chukzombi · Feb 26, 2019

Fadaar said:
do asians like white women? like, is this going to bomb in china like black panther? curious to see the international numbers compared to domestic

they like white women, but probably not so big on grrl power films. in China, women dont exactly get treated as equals.

yeahthatisneathuh · Feb 26, 2019

I feel like there has been a torrent of "she's so strong" bullshit media that offends me not only as a fan of comics but as a fan of movies and good writing. "Thanos is f***ed!" and so on. I mean, what do you want from a superhero movie? And what do you want from a movie, at all? Spiderman is a great character cause he isn't that powerful and all his struggles are fun to watch. The original Star Wars has the rebellion outgunned and outmanned. Even in Return of the Jedi, the fleet is getting BTFO and Luke is personally getting shocked to death. And then, something happens where the good guys overcome.

Imagine watching Return of the Jedi, but before it came out there were hundreds of articles talking about how strong Luke was and how the Emperor was "f***ed." And then imagine in the movie, that's how it actually went. Is that what people want?

Some of the trailers show her laboriously chasing what I assume is a Kree on a train. And also she's the strongest superhero. And also Thanos is toast, guys! And girl power.

Lithose · Feb 26, 2019

Vanessa said:
May be relevant...may not; if you have time to watch this (16 min). Game is 18 years old, but the message is even MORE relevant today than in 2001. Kojima is a genius.

Yeah, I used to link this a lot (Just the game clip). The guy makes a point I have made on here, that we're living in an era "knowledge induced ignorance". It sounds contrarian to say that too much knowledge can make people dumb, but its not when you understand the human brain has an upper limit on data-storage and processing. Its an organ meant to hold enough information to interact with about 200 other people well. This is Dunbar's number--and its a physical limitation on your brain. To exist in larger societies, we've had to use prosthesis for our brain--in a way we are ALL handicapped compared to the needs of modern society. We make up for this handicap in two ways--one is heuristics (Ideology) to shortcut rational analysis (Heuristics are just things that are "more wrong than right" usually, and thus serve as useful shortcuts to begin sifting information). The other is we use prosthesis, like writing things down, animals (To carry messages faster), roads, and now electronic communication. You can actual draw strong parallels here between society and evolution (Early colonies of cells used hormones/chemical communication, which evolved into neural/electrical communication, just like society used chemical imprints on paper, and later electronic communication. In a way, if we look at humanity as a single organism, we're slowly developing our first brain and neural system).

Here is the thing though, because our brains are so woefully inadequate, we need to hyper-specialize in certain things. This REQUIRES trust that information passed to us is accurate from other actors in the system. This leaves us painfully open to exploitation (Through manipulation). And there is no real way yet to combat this, if you give everyone all the information, no one is going to have time to really learn it. Like how the fuck do I know if cancer treatments are truly effective? The truth is, I don't. Even if I obtained all the information on it, I'd need to take years of school for the math, and biology required to make sense of the volumes of work. I need to trust doctors and researchers shortcutting a lot of stuff for me (Even if one is bright enough to read the studies, you'd need to do this, because studies rely on other studies for a lot of variables, and innate knowledge of systems the studies work within.). This same issue comes up with complex political and ideological issues--and with ideology its a double whammy because it ALSO affects those heuristics, so not only can you manipulate people but you can also program them to be less critical even when presented with contrary information.

This is why no matter what, the absolute most core principle we should all want is absolute freedom of speech and communication. No matter how bad the damage might be from a bad actor in the system, it can ALWAYS be fixed if good actors can provide information. In essence, to get back to Kojima's comparison to evolution, the fix is the same fix our bodies developed with the immune system. We always need to be prepared to identify, explain and neutralize bad actors. Which is why censorship is like AIDS--because it hijacks the only system that can prevent this kind of cancer. Once you shut down the ability to communicate, then you also shut down the ability to be objective. And if NO ONE is willing to agree with you the Emperor's dick is hanging out, then you can never really be sure if you're right, you'll begin to assume you're just crazy and if you're rational, in order to appease the group, you'll begin to say the Emperor's wardrobe is fantastic, even though you don't see anything at all. Because objectivity relies on communicated information--everything before that point, your subjective experience? Could just as easily be delusion.

In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. ....And what was terrifying was not that they would kill you for thinking otherwise, but that they might be right. For, after all, how do we know that two and two make four? Or that the force of gravity works? Or that the past is unchangeable? If both the past and the external world exist only in the mind, and if the mind itself is controllable – what then

Sentagur · Feb 26, 2019

Lithose said:
Yeah, I used to link this a lot (Just the game clip). The guy makes a point I have made on here, that we're living in an era "knowledge induced ignorance". It sounds contrarian to say that too much knowledge can make people dumb, but its not when you understand the human brain has an upper limit on data-storage and processing. Its an organ meant to hold enough information to interact with about 200 other people well. This is Dunbar's number--and its a physical limitation on your brain. To exist in larger societies, we've had to use prosthesis for our brain--in a way we are ALL handicapped compared to the needs of modern society. We make up for this handicap in two ways--one is heuristics (Ideology) to shortcut rational analysis (Heuristics are just things that are "more wrong than right" usually, and thus serve as useful shortcuts to begin sifting information). The other is we use prosthesis, like writing things down, animals (To carry messages faster), roads, and now electronic communication. You can actual draw strong parallels here between society and evolution (Early colonies of cells used hormones/chemical communication, which evolved into neural/electrical communication, just like society used chemical imprints on paper, and later electronic communication. In a way, if we look at humanity as a single organism, we're slowly developing our first brain and neural system).

Here is the thing though, because our brains are so woefully inadequate, we need to hyper-specialize in certain things. This REQUIRES trust that information passed to us is accurate from other actors in the system. This leaves us painfully open to exploitation (Through manipulation). And there is no real way yet to combat this, as if you give everyone all the information, no one is going to have time to really learn it. Like how the fuck do I know if cancer treatments are truly effective? The truth is, I don't. Even if I obtained all the information on it, I'd need to take years of school for the math, and biology required to make sense of the volumes of work. I need to trust doctors and researchers shortcutting a lot of stuff for me (Even if one is bright enough to read the studies, you'd need to do this, because studies rely on other studies for a lot of variables, and innate knowledge of systems the studies work within.). This same issue comes up with complex political and ideological issues--and with ideology its a double whammy because it ALSO affects those heuristics, so not only can you manipulate people but you can also program them to be less critical even when presented with contrary information.

This is why no matter what, the absolute most core principle we should all want is absolute freedom of speech and communication. No matter how bad the damage might be from a bad actor in the system, it can ALWAYS be fixed if good actors can provide information. In essence, to get back to Kojima's comparison to evolution, the fix is the same fix our bodies developed with the immune system. We always need to be prepared to identify, explain and neutralize bad actors. Which is why censorship is like AIDS--because it hijacks the only system that can prevent this kind of cancer. Once you shut down the ability to communicate, then you also shut down the ability to be objective. And if NO ONE is willing to agree with you the king's dick is hanging out, then you can never really be sure if you're right, you'll begin to assume you're just crazy and if you're rational, in order to appease the group, you'll begin to say the King's wardrobe is fantastic, even though you don't see anything at all. Because objectivity relies on communicated information--everything before that point, your subjective experience? Could just as easily be delusion.

In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it.....And what was terrifying was not that they would kill you for thinking otherwise, but that they might be right. For, after all, how do we know that two and two make four? Or that the force of gravity works? Or that the past is unchangeable? If both the past and the external world exist only in the mind, and if the mind itself is controllable – what then

Pretty good, would read again.
What i need you to do is to post this again so i can slap you with another thumbs up.

Szlia · Feb 26, 2019

Fadaar said:
do asians like white women? like, is this going to bomb in china like black panther? curious to see the international numbers compared to domestic

Last I checked, Black Panther did not bomb in China. It performed on par with other super hero movies. Same in Europe. The movie massively over-performed in the US though.

Chukzombi · Feb 26, 2019

Samuel L Jackson says hold my tasty beverage.

Szlia · Feb 26, 2019

Fucker said:
Silver Linings Playbook was produced by....guess who. She won an Oscar for that. It's not the first time he's been accused of pulling Oscar strings for his tarts, either. Speaking of Oscars, guess who wasn't there this year? HW of course...and JL. She's hanging low because it's an open joke that she sucked her way to the top.

Oh! I guess I was technically correct since it's produced by The Weinstein Company and not Miramax, but obviously this is a case where technically correct was not the best kind of correct.

That being said, that does not make your statement less stupid since the movie that made Lawrence's career is Winter's Bone (a movie directed by a woman, with a screenplay by two women and a production team consisting of 4 women and two men) and since she has received dozens of awards for movies other than Silver Linings Playbook.

Chukzombi · Feb 26, 2019

there is a connection
Oscars Shake-up: Weinstein Co. Splits With Longtime Awards Campaign Guru (Exclusive)

Taback has worked with Bob and Harvey Weinstein since 1994 (first at Miramax Films and since 1999 through her own company), helping to bring home the gold for such Oscar-winning movies as Shakespeare in Love, Chicago, The King's Speech and The Artist.
Insiders say she lately had told colleagues she was going to take a break from TWC and the demanding Harvey and that she would be handling other clients during the 2014-15 awards season. But the breakup isn't that simple, with sources saying TWC initiated the split.

The rift goes back to last Oscar season, when Weinstein execs learned that Taback was representing Disney's Saving Mr. Banks in what the company believed was a violation of a contract that called for her services to be "semi-exclusive" to TWC. In previous years, she had been permitted to rep indies such as Winter's Bone and Precious, which weren't deemed direct threats to TWC's slate, but under the terms of her 2013 agreement, there were explicit limits placed on which non-TWC movies she could handle.