Coronavirus Updates, Important Information, and Ancedotal Experience

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
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This isn't the original article and quite honestly I'm not even sure it's the same doctor from earlier this week (news moves too quickly around this thing) but here's a link

Sooner we get testing mass produced the sooner we can mass test the population and start treating them with this shit.
 
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Gurgeh

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An evangelist rally, in east of France taking place mid february was most certainly the "cluster" that spread quickly the disease. We're learning now that "most people" were coughing after this 5 days rally, and went back everywhere in France, 2500 people, possibly a large part of them sick as early as feb 21 and went back. Multiple people of this rally spread the disease to hundreds of others by mar 1 (including a nurse that ended up directly or indirectly contaminating 250+ medical personnel by early march). Looking at the official data, France is at the very least x10 in infections.

Another hint that the "real" number of infections is probably well above 200k (which would be coherent with 2k * 2^7 (7*5 days since feb 20) ) currently, how many ? 200k would be assuming that the only cluster was this one... Tough to say, H1N1 had infected well over 1M at that point of the epidemy
 

Scoresby

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We in EMS are now 're-using' our N95 masks, but only to a certain extent.

It's crazy to think but only 3 months ago we would burn an entire N-95 mask on a new-hire just to fit test them, and then throw it away. We would use 20-30 masks a month just on testing and then toss them. It seems crazy in hindsight. I doubt our company will ever adopt this practice ever again. We will still fit-test people of course, but I imagine we will tell the person to keep the mask.

Now? Now we have to use the same mask for an all-day shift and even then some employees are choosing to keep them after their shift.

We are telling them that if they use an N-95 mask, and if in their own best judgement the patient did NOT have COVID19, then they can re-use that mask for the rest of their shift. If the patient might well have or confirmed does have COVID19, then we are telling them that the mask is contaminated and to throw it away and get another one.

We are becoming stretched. As part of the Operations leadership team we have to find the fine line between protecting our people now, and protecting our people 6 months from now.

It's easy to say to our EMTs and Paramedics, "Wear full PPE on every call no matter what." And that would in fact offer our people the best possible protection. But if we do that, then in 3-6 months we might very well have nothing left to give them and then we'd be seriously up shit's creek. Then the best we could do is tell them to pull their t-shirts up over their nose.

It's not easy to find the middle ground. Right now we are trying our best to work with Dispatch (which is complicated because they just recently joined the Teamsters and have become a bunch of angry little Soviets who care more about being allowed to dye their hair green than they do about making our operation function) to try to give the EMTs a 'best guess' as to when they might want to wear their PPE, and combine that with educating our own EMTs on our end as to how to define a potential COVID patient.

------

For instance, 2 days ago we had a crew who was Dispatched to a 36 year old male who 'had a cough'. Dispatch told the crew to 'Wear Full PPE' because he had a cough. The crew did this and put on all of their PPE before they made patient contact. Then they got on scene and discovered that this was actually just a psych patient was was pretending to have a couch because he thought it was funny to fuck with people.

We burned through 2 full sets of PPE because this one motherfucker thought it was funny.

If PPE supplies were infinite then this would be no problem. But PPE supplies are very much not infinite, so this is a problem. We have a lot of stock, and we could keep going down this path of hypervigiliance for probably a few months. But what happens if we keep going down this path and COVID is still a threat in September and we have finally run out of stock? Then what?

So in the last 3-4 days we have issued protocols that are designed to give our people all of the access to the PPE that they need, but in turn we are also advising them to not waste any of it on frivolous claims.

------

We're in a real pickle. It's not even about money. We have the money. It's that we need to protect our people right now, but also need to be able to protect our people 6 months from now.

How do you draw that line? How do you tell a group of 300+ 20-something year old EMTs to be fully vigilant against COVID... but also not to waste supplies or else we might all be in big trouble come Autumn?

-----

Dispatch is telling them to wear PPE on damn near every call, and we are forced to tell them to NOT wear PPE on every call. We are telling them to take each patient on a case by case basis. Protect yourself, yes. But understand that if you go too far in this direction then you might not be able to protect yourself later down the road. We are THROWING MONEY at the manufacturers and they are telling us, simply, that no amount of money can make their machines work faster. It's not a money thing it's a capacity thing.

Crazy times. I've been taking pictures of my base. It's like an alien world. Things are SO different than they were just 3 weeks ago.

If you end up having to wear them for long hours they do get to be a pain-in-the-ass (have seen pictures in Italy of rashes and bruises even depending on the gear). I saw this the other day and thought it was a clever workaround. If you are having to reuse them anyway, can just wash the bandana daily as well. Not sure what you guys are doing to clean up your masks, but hearing people using their ovens as COVID-19 looks to breakdown significantly with heat 140F+. Polypropylene itself, which I assume your masks are made of, is highly water resistant and can take temps up to 180F without breaking down. With that in mind, I'd think hand washing to clean the surface and a 15-30m bake at 160F in the oven (since your oven temp, esp on the low end may not be super calibrated) to sterilize any COVID-19. I know it's not ideal (esp since you also use your oven to ya know, cook), but if you are needing to reuse these seems there would need to be a process. You guys may already have something.

1585484984224.png
 

Sanrith Descartes

Veteran of a thousand threadban wars
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Daily dose of anecdotal reporting. Things went from slow to overdrive for wife at hospital rather quickly. Worked a lot of hours last few days and now the phone calls, conferences, texts and emails are non stop. What's a little scary is this is with very little confirmed covid patients. Testing is still extremely slow and unresponsive that they are filling up with suspected covid patients that then still require the same level of precautions. The testing issue has to be resolved or it really seems untenable with any kind of volume.

There are a good number of nurses who don't want to be working with COVID patients, they have a review process based on risk factors to be excluded.

On the equipment front they are now saving all N95 masks after use and they are being recycled for re use. Had seen a blurb on the news about this, I'm not sure by what means they are cleaning them.
A wise man once said that panic is worse than whatever causes the panic. Our media is so proud right now.
 
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Sanrith Descartes

Veteran of a thousand threadban wars
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We in EMS are now 're-using' our N95 masks, but only to a certain extent.

It's crazy to think but only 3 months ago we would burn an entire N-95 mask on a new-hire just to fit test them, and then throw it away. We would use 20-30 masks a month just on testing and then toss them. It seems crazy in hindsight. I doubt our company will ever adopt this practice ever again. We will still fit-test people of course, but I imagine we will tell the person to keep the mask.

Now? Now we have to use the same mask for an all-day shift and even then some employees are choosing to keep them after their shift.

We are telling them that if they use an N-95 mask, and if in their own best judgement the patient did NOT have COVID19, then they can re-use that mask for the rest of their shift. If the patient might well have or confirmed does have COVID19, then we are telling them that the mask is contaminated and to throw it away and get another one.

We are becoming stretched. As part of the Operations leadership team we have to find the fine line between protecting our people now, and protecting our people 6 months from now.

It's easy to say to our EMTs and Paramedics, "Wear full PPE on every call no matter what." And that would in fact offer our people the best possible protection. But if we do that, then in 3-6 months we might very well have nothing left to give them and then we'd be seriously up shit's creek. Then the best we could do is tell them to pull their t-shirts up over their nose.

It's not easy to find the middle ground. Right now we are trying our best to work with Dispatch (which is complicated because they just recently joined the Teamsters and have become a bunch of angry little Soviets who care more about being allowed to dye their hair green than they do about making our operation function) to try to give the EMTs a 'best guess' as to when they might want to wear their PPE, and combine that with educating our own EMTs on our end as to how to define a potential COVID patient.

------

For instance, 2 days ago we had a crew who was Dispatched to a 36 year old male who 'had a cough'. Dispatch told the crew to 'Wear Full PPE' because he had a cough. The crew did this and put on all of their PPE before they made patient contact. Then they got on scene and discovered that this was actually just a psych patient was was pretending to have a couch because he thought it was funny to fuck with people.

We burned through 2 full sets of PPE because this one motherfucker thought it was funny.

If PPE supplies were infinite then this would be no problem. But PPE supplies are very much not infinite, so this is a problem. We have a lot of stock, and we could keep going down this path of hypervigiliance for probably a few months. But what happens if we keep going down this path and COVID is still a threat in September and we have finally run out of stock? Then what?

So in the last 3-4 days we have issued protocols that are designed to give our people all of the access to the PPE that they need, but in turn we are also advising them to not waste any of it on frivolous claims.

------

We're in a real pickle. It's not even about money. We have the money. It's that we need to protect our people right now, but also need to be able to protect our people 6 months from now.

How do you draw that line? How do you tell a group of 300+ 20-something year old EMTs to be fully vigilant against COVID... but also not to waste supplies or else we might all be in big trouble come Autumn?

-----

Dispatch is telling them to wear PPE on damn near every call, and we are forced to tell them to NOT wear PPE on every call. We are telling them to take each patient on a case by case basis. Protect yourself, yes. But understand that if you go too far in this direction then you might not be able to protect yourself later down the road. We are THROWING MONEY at the manufacturers and they are telling us, simply, that no amount of money can make their machines work faster. It's not a money thing it's a capacity thing.

Crazy times. I've been taking pictures of my base. It's like an alien world. Things are SO different than they were just 3 weeks ago.
My manufacturing company is in NY. When the call came out for help, I immediately offered any spare capacity we had to help to the State. After 3 days of no response, no email, no one answering the phone I reached out to some local politicians I know. A few days later and still dead silence. Finally I get a form letter back from the state. "Thanks for offering, but if you aren't already qualified to make FDA approved items then we don't need you. Thanks but no thanks".

I'm keeping this for when we come out on the other side of Coronachan and the blame games really begin. The problem isn't the virus. The problem is our politicians and our government (at every level).
 
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Sanrith Descartes

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If you end up having to wear them for long hours they do get to be a pain-in-the-ass (have seen pictures in Italy of rashes and bruises even depending on the gear). I saw this the other day and thought it was a clever workaround. If you are having to reuse them anyway, can just wash the bandana daily as well. Not sure what you guys are doing to clean up your masks, but hearing people using their ovens as COVID-19 looks to breakdown significantly with heat 140F+. Polypropylene itself, which I assume your masks are made of, is highly water resistant and can take temps up to 180F without breaking down. With that in mind, I'd think hand washing to clean the surface and a 15-30m bake at 160F in the oven (since your oven temp, esp on the low end may not be super calibrated) to sterilize any COVID-19. I know it's not ideal (esp since you also use your oven to ya know, cook), but if you are needing to reuse these seems there would need to be a process. You guys may already have something.

View attachment 257632
One thing to add to this. We are seeing the terms "not ideal" and "isn't the correct way to sterilize" alot these days. We aren't in classroom settings anymore. In the military we used super glue on wounds to close them. Not ideal. Its what humans do best. Adapt.

Not directing this at your post, just adding on to it. If out if the box ideas only make something 90% effective than 90% is better than the 0% effectiveness when we run out of something.
 
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ver_21

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If you end up having to wear them for long hours they do get to be a pain-in-the-ass (have seen pictures in Italy of rashes and bruises even depending on the gear). I saw this the other day and thought it was a clever workaround. If you are having to reuse them anyway, can just wash the bandana daily as well. Not sure what you guys are doing to clean up your masks, but hearing people using their ovens as COVID-19 looks to breakdown significantly with heat 140F+. Polypropylene itself, which I assume your masks are made of, is highly water resistant and can take temps up to 180F without breaking down. With that in mind, I'd think hand washing to clean the surface and a 15-30m bake at 160F in the oven (since your oven temp, esp on the low end may not be super calibrated) to sterilize any COVID-19. I know it's not ideal (esp since you also use your oven to ya know, cook), but if you are needing to reuse these seems there would need to be a process. You guys may already have something.

Maybe a stupid question, but what if you put isopropyl in a spray bottle and give these a good spritz?
 
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Vanessa

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Thank you for this video AG, I listened to it while lying down last night for bed. Take-aways of the video were that Heather and their son may have ALREADY had it a few months back and it would be a boon to society if there was a test to see if you've had it so you can be one of the people contributing to society instead of quarantined. I saw the exact same sentiment on Facebook via a shared post of a nurse working in the hospital that they got a slew of patients with flu-like symptoms but tested negative for the flu, and it baffled them, and THEN Covid-19 made waves and only in hindsight did the lightbulb go off of the possibility that it was already in the public square sometime around Christmas. Very very interesting if true!

I truly recommend this video to anyone with an IQ greater than room temperature and who is not offended by the concept of evolution.
Btw, you're like a hipster evolutionist with this quote, you know that. "I'd tell you about the intricacies of biology and evolution, but you wouldn't understand it!" Not a single thing they talked about was difficult to grasp or offensive to a Christian like me. Just saying.
 

uniqueuser

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Yeah, totally plausible that many people caught it months ago, as the most densely populated hubs in the country are only now having a problem with it.

jerkoff.gif
 
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TomServo

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I was saying the same thing weeks ago. Wife and I with the mild form of this last a long ass time but wasn't severe. 75 percent of the people I know here inorlando had it around Christmas through New year's.
 
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Pops

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I posted this in the other thread, early morn, so likely got missed.
 
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Araxen

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I certainly hope after this is all over, the government establishes something like we do with oil. Where we have a strategic reserve of PPE, and other medical stuff so this shortage doesn't happen again.
 
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AngryGerbil

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Thank you for this video AG, I listened to it while lying down last night for bed. Take-aways of the video were that Heather and their son may have ALREADY had it a few months back and it would be a boon to society if there was a test to see if you've had it so you can be one of the people contributing to society instead of quarantined. I saw the exact same sentiment on Facebook via a shared post of a nurse working in the hospital that they got a slew of patients with flu-like symptoms but tested negative for the flu, and it baffled them, and THEN Covid-19 made waves and only in hindsight did the lightbulb go off of the possibility that it was already in the public square sometime around Christmas. Very very interesting if true!


Btw, you're like a hipster evolutionist with this quote, you know that. "I'd tell you about the intricacies of biology and evolution, but you wouldn't understand it!" Not a single thing they talked about was difficult to grasp or offensive to a Christian like me. Just saying.

Another interesting point they bring up is the propensity of viruses to evolve over time to become LESS lethal.

It is in a virus's best interests to not kill its host, or least to not kill its host too quickly. It will, by logic, evolve over time to become less lethal.

Think of the common cold. That virus, when it first jumped to humans, (assuming we had perfect historical knowledge, which we don't) was probably much more lethal to humans in the beginning. But over time it evolved to 'figure out' the fact that it could survive and propagate more if it became less lethal. Take the evolution of it and extrapolate it and we now have a relatively benign virus that makes us cough (thus effectively spreading the virus) but otherwise does little to no real damage to us. You could argue that the common cold is a very highly specialized and evolved species of virus. It has 'learned' to live alongside humans, how to use humans to propagate its own genome, but at the same time does not kill those humans.

In other words, the common cold is a very highly evolved and successful critter. It has, through evolutionary time, found that sweet spot where it knows how to make humans cough, but it also knows how to not kill the humans that it infects. Thus, it survives and thrives through time, which is exactly what every critter on Earth is always attempting to do at all times.

COVID has a lot of work to do in order to get to this point, and the cycles it needs to go through to get there might well last longer than any of our lifetimes, but the good news is that most viruses actually DON'T want to kill their hosts. Most viruses are trying to find that perfect balance that the common cold has already found. Namely, "Do something to the host that makes them spread us around, but don't kill any of them in the process."
 
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Hoss

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Thank you for this video AG, I listened to it while lying down last night for bed. Take-aways of the video were that Heather and their son may have ALREADY had it a few months back and it would be a boon to society if there was a test to see if you've had it so you can be one of the people contributing to society instead of quarantined. I saw the exact same sentiment on Facebook via a shared post of a nurse working in the hospital that they got a slew of patients with flu-like symptoms but tested negative for the flu, and it baffled them, and THEN Covid-19 made waves and only in hindsight did the lightbulb go off of the possibility that it was already in the public square sometime around Christmas. Very very interesting if true!

That test already exists, doesn't it? I saw on the news that they have an antibody test in the UK that costs about $15 and that the US was expected to get it's own developed quickly. It's not getting a lot of press because the powers that be are afraid that people will think having the antibodies makes them immune and we're not sure if that's true.

As soon as I find those tests for sale, I'm getting one for everyone in my house.
 
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Captain Suave

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That test already exists, doesn't it? I saw on the news that they have an antibody test in the UK that costs about $15 and that the US was expected to get it's own developed quickly.

The technology exists but the even the UK one is some weeks out from mass availability.
 

Lanx

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hey you medical ppl,

is this your gear? or at what point do you stop, why this guy put on two masks, and two shower caps?