DC Universe (Batman vs Superman thread).

Snyder is basically doing everything he can to try and make his shit choices not look as bad.

he looks like Marilyn Manson. that should go over well.

Can't wait for this shit show. Hype.

TBT-TheBigToe said:

I might actually watch this, it looks like it could end up being The Last Jedi levels of fail.

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I'll watch it cuz there is shit else to watch, thx covid.

Vanessa said:

Bouncing off that quote in my own way, I actually had the time to lay back on the couch and watch TV while I was suffering from Chinaflu myself in my home for the past couple weeks;

I saw bits and pieces of some these DCEU movies I glossed over in the past and sure enough... they are EXACTLY what I assumed they would be like: Stale, neutered MCU movies.

Hard to put my finger on it... all I know is that the MCU makes magic and the DCEU tries to imitate said magic and fails spectacularly. They really need to fold the tents up and just let Marvel work their magic... it's embarrassing.

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Marvel spent years planning. DC saw money hats and just threw shit out there.

rhinohelix said:

In 2016 while we were watching Civil War in theaters, Marvel had PreVis completed on Avengers: Endgame; The final fight, Avengers Assemble, the whole thing, something like 90% of the movie. WB DC just isn't as committed to anything, ANYTHING, as Kevin Feige is to the Marvel way and it shows up every time on screen.

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i'm sure they care, but their turnover rate is vicious. one dud, they fire everyone and start over.

rhinohelix said:

That is exactly my point. Firstly, they grew nothing organically, which may have been a valid theory given where they thought we were in the Superhero cycle; i.e. if you think its going to have another 5-8 year run, you can't wait to pay it in 10 years afterwards, so you start out mid-cycle of your own. Which is a valid theory but you can't make mediocre movies and then KEEP. STARTING. OVER. Hell, they essentially started over after 2 billion dollar movies. Where is Aquaman 2? Superman 2? WonderWoman 1984 is kind of a semi-prequal? And retcons part of your continuity, after which you decide to start over again? It's just so haphazard. Antman is a bigger box office draw than the Man of Steel. Henry Cavil pulls more eyes to Netflix as the Witcher than there are frogs in Florida and DC won't give his a decent Superman movie. Unbelievable.

When your studio moves are bigger than the stories they tell, you've failed. People know more about the directors and actors and their antics than the tales of the superheroes in DC at this point.

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The problem is they dont have a Kevin Feige, and even if they hired Kevin Feige, they would never give him the control he has at Marvel. Corporate says what goes and corporate has no fucking idea how to run their company. Even if they gave Feige control, he would be gone if the movie doesnt meet their expectations. Their foundation for the DEU was supposed to be Superman, but since they made Supes's platform fucking grimdark for some odd reason, none of their other stories work well with it because only Batman is the grimdark guy. Wonderwoman is supposed to be fun. Flash is fun, Aquaman is fun, Shazaam is fun. i dunno about Cyborg, never read his comics. There is a tonal shift in all these films. how can you be serious with silly characters and how can you be fun in grimdark land? Its gotta be one or the other. Marvel went with fun and entertaining and has kept the pace for the most part. Thor 2 and Cap1 were the least liked films because they were grittier in tone.

It sounds terrible, but they need to redo Superman. this time he needs to be a more hopeful character in a world that isnt a pile of shit, i dont know if it takes a brand new origin story, but the look of him going forward has to be more optimistic and not so fucking edgy. leave that to Batman.

like wtf is this shit?
how is Supes in this position? Fucking bleak motherfucking bullshit.

MCU has it's share of shit villains. It just comes down to MCU was just planned out better and made by people that are both good at making movies and care about the source material.

Vanessa said:

It's very simple here: Just look at the villains of the DCEU.

Fuck the heroes... ignore them. Just look primarily at their big bads: the villains. They are complete shit. Because the DCEU is complete shit LoL.

Wonder Woman: Boring grey armored thing
Wonder Woman 2: Boring grey cat thing
Aquaman: Boring black armored thing
Justice League: Boring grey armored thing
Batman vs Superman: Boring grey blob thing

...really folks~

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none of them have a personality and arent interconnected to a grander theme. they get killed at the end of a film, never to be seen again and they served no purpose in advancing the story.

Sterling said:

MCU has it's share of shit villains. It just comes down to MCU was just planned out better and made by people that are both good at making movies and care about the source material.

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that many films though you will get some dud villains, but even Red Skull plays a large part in the Infinity War.

Vanessa said:

Yeah, I agree the MCU isn't a monolith of filmmaking perfection... we had some boring duds too like Abomination (pun intended), Kaecillius, Yellowjacket, Killian/Mandarin, Dormammu (oh my fuck that was awful), but one thing that even the worst MCU villians weren't were dull CGI monster blobs. I mean, just look at this:

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Big giant grey mindless monster. Utterly devoid of creative juice here folks.

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Abomination is back in She-Hulk and the REAL Mandarin is the villain for the Shang-Chi movie.

Vanessa said:

Yeah, I agree the MCU isn't a monolith of filmmaking perfection... we had some boring duds too like Abomination (pun intended), Kaecillius, Yellowjacket, Killian/Mandarin, Dormammu (oh my fuck that was awful), but one thing that even the worst MCU villians weren't were dull CGI monster blobs. I mean, just look at this:

View attachment 334061

Big giant grey mindless monster. Utterly devoid of creative juice here folks.

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Not disagreeing with the central point of your post but Doomsday is kind of a big grey monster.

The bigger issue there is they took one of the most significant villains in DC history and completely fucked up his backstory. I mean, Doomsday killed Supes after beating the snot out of the whole JL.

He'd fought and beaten Darkseid ffs and yet he's killed by a fucking Kryptonite-tipped spear in the movie... urgh.

I think that Marvel tends to have more grounded stories where people become heroes by accident using familiar technologies and science, so it's necessary to see their character development which helps you to like them and invest in future stories.

DC tends to have less relatable stuff. People who are born heroes/wealthy or are heroes because of some kind of weirdo alien/magic stuff. So you can't relate, meaning that it's got to go all in on the spectacle (80s Batman) and not try to be gritty grounded stories with a grey armoured baddie (Modern DCEU).

Now obviously there is overlap and examples of all of this in both, especially if you look at the comics too. But I think this is broadly true.

Even with things which are similar on the surface (Batman vs Iron Man), I've never seen one bit of character development for Batman, he's always a tourtured soul with the wealth to get proper treatmet but never does. Iron Man goes from rich charismatic asshole who does what he wants, to questioning his role in the world, to the guy that sacrifices himself for the team.