Depression

moonarchia · Jan 8, 2022

Yeah, aside from being vague and a little mopey sounding, try being a little more verbose as to what's eating you, Mr Grape. Why do you think you are going to die soon?

Moglyzoke Moogleman · Feb 17, 2022

I am losing the war.

I've struggled with depression since my mid teens. Copious amounts of drugs and alcohol over the years served as a self medication that eventually only made things worse.

The only reason I'm still alive at this point is I lack the balls to go through with the final act. I just can't pull myself to tying the bag around my face. I am aware it will destroy everyone around me. I guess these days it's just my family and my gf.

I've withdrawn from all other friend groups and social activity. I am officially a mean and broken mother fucker. I told a recent friend I no longer see the value in friendship.

I have been talking to a therapist for 6 months now but I'm not sure he is a totally right fit. He deals with alot of formerly incarcerated people and folks who came from other hard walks of life. I have just thrown myself pity party year over year to the point I'm finally living it out like some self fufilling prophecy.

I know what I need to do. I need to start exercising again to combat the depression. I did enough ecstasy (>100 times) in my youth there is a clinical basis for this. I also should make up with my friends over a dispute. But I can't because it's already happened, and then I act like a huge asshole again.

Don't know what I'm looking for and I'd be surprised if anyone even responded to this outside of some negative reactions. Why do I even care about this?

It's even further sad if I did commit the act I feel like I'd post the note somewhere here and not even write one to my family and gf. What's the point. They know I struggle with this shit. And like all other mental illness noone cares until something crazy happens.

I had to put my dog down July of 2020 which broke me down during a period I hated my job. My buddies brother with schizo killed himself later that month. For a sensitive person like me this sent me over the edge. Since then I've basically been on a mental spiral down, despite having purchased a home and found a new job.

That's my 5am ramble thanks for reading.

ToeMissile · Feb 17, 2022

Moglyzoke Moogleman said:
I am losing the war.

I've struggled with depression since my mid teens. Copious amounts of drugs and alcohol over the years served as a self medication that eventually only made things worse.

The only reason I'm still alive at this point is I lack the balls to go through with the final act. I just can't pull myself to tying the bag around my face. I am aware it will destroy everyone around me. I guess these days it's just my family and my gf.

I've withdrawn from all other friend groups and social activity. I am officially a mean and broken mother fucker. I told a recent friend I no longer see the value in friendship.

I have been talking to a therapist for 6 months now but I'm not sure he is a totally right fit. He deals with alot of formerly incarcerated people and folks who came from other hard walks of life. I have just thrown myself pity party year over year to the point I'm finally living it out like some self fufilling prophecy.

I know what I need to do. I need to start exercising again to combat the depression. I did enough ecstasy (>100 times) in my youth there is a clinical basis for this. I also should make up with my friends over a dispute. But I can't because it's already happened, and then I act like a huge asshole again.

Don't know what I'm looking for and I'd be surprised if anyone even responded to this outside of some negative reactions. Why do I even care about this?

It's even further sad if I did commit the act I feel like I'd post the note somewhere here and not even write one to my family and gf. What's the point. They know I struggle with this shit. And like all other mental illness noone cares until something crazy happens.

I had to put my dog down July of 2020 which broke me down during a period I hated my job. My buddies brother with schizo killed himself later that month. For a sensitive person like me this sent me over the edge. Since then I've basically been on a mental spiral down, despite having purchased a home and found a new job.

That's my 5am ramble thanks for reading.

Talk to someone.

Control · Feb 17, 2022

Moglyzoke Moogleman said:
I am losing the war.

I've struggled with depression since my mid teens. Copious amounts of drugs and alcohol over the years served as a self medication that eventually only made things worse.

The only reason I'm still alive at this point is I lack the balls to go through with the final act. I just can't pull myself to tying the bag around my face. I am aware it will destroy everyone around me. I guess these days it's just my family and my gf.

I've withdrawn from all other friend groups and social activity. I am officially a mean and broken mother fucker. I told a recent friend I no longer see the value in friendship.

I have been talking to a therapist for 6 months now but I'm not sure he is a totally right fit. He deals with alot of formerly incarcerated people and folks who came from other hard walks of life. I have just thrown myself pity party year over year to the point I'm finally living it out like some self fufilling prophecy.

I know what I need to do. I need to start exercising again to combat the depression. I did enough ecstasy (>100 times) in my youth there is a clinical basis for this. I also should make up with my friends over a dispute. But I can't because it's already happened, and then I act like a huge asshole again.

Don't know what I'm looking for and I'd be surprised if anyone even responded to this outside of some negative reactions. Why do I even care about this?

It's even further sad if I did commit the act I feel like I'd post the note somewhere here and not even write one to my family and gf. What's the point. They know I struggle with this shit. And like all other mental illness noone cares until something crazy happens.

I had to put my dog down July of 2020 which broke me down during a period I hated my job. My buddies brother with schizo killed himself later that month. For a sensitive person like me this sent me over the edge. Since then I've basically been on a mental spiral down, despite having purchased a home and found a new job.

That's my 5am ramble thanks for reading.

I don't have any great advice, but have you gotten another dog? If not, getting a new fuzzy friend and giving it 3 walks a day might not hurt.

Masakari · Feb 17, 2022

Moglyzoke Moogleman said:
I am losing the war.

I've struggled with depression since my mid teens. Copious amounts of drugs and alcohol over the years served as a self medication that eventually only made things worse.

The only reason I'm still alive at this point is I lack the balls to go through with the final act. I just can't pull myself to tying the bag around my face. I am aware it will destroy everyone around me. I guess these days it's just my family and my gf.

I've withdrawn from all other friend groups and social activity. I am officially a mean and broken mother fucker. I told a recent friend I no longer see the value in friendship.

I have been talking to a therapist for 6 months now but I'm not sure he is a totally right fit. He deals with alot of formerly incarcerated people and folks who came from other hard walks of life. I have just thrown myself pity party year over year to the point I'm finally living it out like some self fufilling prophecy.

I know what I need to do. I need to start exercising again to combat the depression. I did enough ecstasy (>100 times) in my youth there is a clinical basis for this. I also should make up with my friends over a dispute. But I can't because it's already happened, and then I act like a huge asshole again.

Don't know what I'm looking for and I'd be surprised if anyone even responded to this outside of some negative reactions. Why do I even care about this?

It's even further sad if I did commit the act I feel like I'd post the note somewhere here and not even write one to my family and gf. What's the point. They know I struggle with this shit. And like all other mental illness noone cares until something crazy happens.

I had to put my dog down July of 2020 which broke me down during a period I hated my job. My buddies brother with schizo killed himself later that month. For a sensitive person like me this sent me over the edge. Since then I've basically been on a mental spiral down, despite having purchased a home and found a new job.

That's my 5am ramble thanks for reading.

Have you tried forcing yourself to adopt a new hobby you can channel your energy into? Hiking? Photography? Painting? Rock climbing?

Have you tried cutting out caffeine and any other substances that artificially alter your mood?

Do you have anything in your life that is constantly bringing down your mood that you can shut out permanently?

Cad · Feb 17, 2022

I have a friend who is depressed, and I really have no idea how to help her. It seems like everything in life sends her on a spiral of self doubt and self hatred. Like something happens with her kid that has absolutely nothing to do with her... oh my god I'm a bad mom, my kids hate me, they would be better off with someone else... etc. She worked over at my house one day just because me and my wife are always home and she didn't want to be alone, like emails from her boss that were even slightly criticizing would send her into a 2 hour tailspin trying to decide if she's going to be fired. She seems like she's just constantly anxious about everything, even shit that nobody can do anything about (like what if my flight is cancelled? That would be just my luck! We should go home by midnight because the drunks are out later, with my luck we will all be killed... )

So.. what the fuck does a friend do in this situation? Telling her it's all in her head doesn't seem to help. Telling her she's actually a fantastic person doesn't help. She has a lot of friends and people who care about her, but she thinks she's dead-weight on all of them and is generally spiraling out of control. Financially she is well off, she's good looking, reasonably young, and is educated and has a good job. There's nothing objectively wrong with her or her life, other than this attitude.

What can be done from the outside to help? Do you just encourage and give opportunities and then pull back and put it on her? I have tried dragging her by the neck to events to have fun and she seems to generally have fun, but then will be "exhausted" for days after and be right back to the same thing.

What do?

Moglyzoke Moogleman · Feb 17, 2022

ToeMissile said:
Talk to someone.

Good call. Thanks man.

Control said:
I don't have any great advice, but have you gotten another dog? If not, getting a new fuzzy friend and giving it 3 walks a day might not hurt.

Yeah we got a new pup after we put him down. So it maintained the 2 cats / 2 dogs balance. I've got a fenced in yard but we still try to take the pups on a morning walk each day in the woods. Fucking ticks, things suck. Oh I also got a clutch of 8 hens and 1 rooster. I'm looking forward to spending time in the yard with them as the weather gets nicer. Thanks man.

Masakari said:
Have you tried forcing yourself to adopt a new hobby you can channel your energy into? Hiking? Photography? Painting? Rock climbing?

Have you tried cutting out caffeine and any other substances that artificially alter your mood?

Do you have anything in your life that is constantly bringing down your mood that you can shut out permanently?

The new hobby I have besides chickens is investing / trading. Needless to say it's going incredibly poorly (you can view the results in the loss-porn thread.) I am starting to find my footing but it is not helping with my overall sanity. It's not even the losing of the money (because the money I put in I could lose,) it's not being good at something. I can't stand it. Maybe I'm a little bitch. It sucks to suck though. To build off the hobby thing I should probably start running in the morning since I wake up early as hell anyway.

I stopped caffeine back during the start of the pandemic initially to save money because I couldn't siphon the work coffee. The results have been great though, I only have occasional sips of coffee. I have my medical marijuana card so I utilize that but honestly it feels like a crutch sometimes. Any port in a storm? I guess. I've gotten much better with alcohol so my problem behaviors have been reduced there's just lingering effects.

Heh, that's a good question. I appreciate that you posed it because it is getting me thinking and I'm not 100% sure how to answer. I guess the biggest would be my anger. Everytime I get angry it fucks things up or doesn't help. My life would be significantly improved with some kind of anger gauge instead of 0 to 100.

Thanks for your input as well man.

Moglyzoke Moogleman · Feb 17, 2022

Cad said:
It seems like everything in life sends her on a spiral of self doubt and self hatred. Like something happens with her kid that has absolutely nothing to do with her... oh my god I'm a bad mom, my kids hate me, they would be better off with someone else... etc. She worked over at my house one day just because me and my wife are always home and she didn't want to be alone, like emails from her boss that were even slightly criticizing would send her into a 2 hour tailspin trying to decide if she's going to be fired. She seems like she's just constantly anxious about everything, even shit that nobody can do anything about (like what if my flight is cancelled? That would be just my luck! We should go home by midnight because the drunks are out later, with my luck we will all be killed... )

This resonates with me incredibly well. I know those exact cycles, exact feelings, exact stupid work-related BS. Things other people just shrug right off can get stuck and simmer. It sucks. Make no mistake if her or I could just turn this off, we would in a heartbeat.

I mean one issue is that I think some people never experience depression in their lives at all. A former coworker of mine was like this. He had some other funny views but he could not understand depression. From my experience I think it runs in the family, looking at my parents and knowing what I know. It also tends to fester. A former boss made my life miserable and eventually I connected the dots that he had problems of his own.

Cad said:
So.. what the fuck does a friend do in this situation? Telling her it's all in her head doesn't seem to help. Telling her she's actually a fantastic person doesn't help. She has a lot of friends and people who care about her, but she thinks she's dead-weight on all of them and is generally spiraling out of control. Financially she is well off, she's good looking, reasonably young, and is educated and has a good job. There's nothing objectively wrong with her or her life, other than this attitude.

What can be done from the outside to help? Do you just encourage and give opportunities and then pull back and put it on her? I have tried dragging her by the neck to events to have fun and she seems to generally have fun, but then will be "exhausted" for days after and be right back to the same thing.

What do?

Being supportive is number 1. Even if she falls back into these lapses and cycles the support helps each time. I can say without a shadow of a doubt without such supportive and loving people in my life I would've succumbed by now. That said I've also isolated myself and alienated relationships. The fact she isn't doing that is a plus, but can also be deceiving because you may not know how much she's hurting. I guess my number 2 would be is she talking to a therapist? I am speaking with one now and even though it's not the best (I saw a therapist when I was in my teens and we connected very well,) I still am much better off talking to him than not. Some weeks I don't even feel like much went on or saying much but it's been a net positive in my life. Hell I connected the dots I need to go back to school to earn the type of wage I feel I should earn. My point there being - maybe she has some questions in her life she needs answered that she can discover speaking to a licensed therapist / psychologist etc.

I'll think on this more to see if I come up with anything else but there's my 2 cents. Thanks for your time as well.

Cad · Feb 17, 2022

Moglyzoke Moogleman said:
This resonates with me incredibly well. I know those exact cycles, exact feelings, exact stupid work-related BS. Things other people just shrug right off can get stuck and simmer. It sucks. Make no mistake if her or I could just turn this off, we would in a heartbeat.

I mean one issue is that I think some people never experience depression in their lives at all. A former coworker of mine was like this. He had some other funny views but he could not understand depression. From my experience I think it runs in the family, looking at my parents and knowing what I know. It also tends to fester. A former boss made my life miserable and eventually I connected the dots that he had problems of his own.

Being supportive is number 1. Even if she falls back into these lapses and cycles the support helps each time. I can say without a shadow of a doubt without such supportive and loving people in my life I would've succumbed by now. That said I've also isolated myself and alienated relationships. The fact she isn't doing that is a plus, but can also be deceiving because you may not know how much she's hurting. I guess my number 2 would be is she talking to a therapist? I am speaking with one now and even though it's not the best (I saw a therapist when I was in my teens and we connected very well,) I still am much better off talking to him than not. Some weeks I don't even feel like much went on or saying much but it's been a net positive in my life. Hell I connected the dots I need to go back to school to earn the type of wage I feel I should earn. My point there being - maybe she has some questions in her life she needs answered that she can discover speaking to a licensed therapist / psychologist etc.

I'll think on this more to see if I come up with anything else but there's my 2 cents. Thanks for your time as well.

How do you deal with the objective reality not matching your feelings? Like she gets an email and sits and worries she's going to be fired, that everybody hates her, etc.. but I look at her phone and she has 175 unread messages from 20+ people. She's been at her job for like 7 years and she's good at it, never been fired, and has been promoted several times.

But she's worried she's going to be fired.. thats completely irrational. She thinks she's dead weight to people and nobody likes her.. but people ask her out and try to get her to do things all day long. Like the world just isn't the way she sees it.

Do you have this issue too? How does your mind process the reality into something bad? Is there anything a person could say that would cause you not to see it that way?

And no problem dude - I would bet good money that the people in your life are trying hard to understand you too, and want to help you. The knowledge that they are doing this should reassure you that the world isn't as you think it appears?

Oblio · Feb 17, 2022

Cad said:
I have a friend who is depressed, and I really have no idea how to help her. It seems like everything in life sends her on a spiral of self doubt and self hatred. Like something happens with her kid that has absolutely nothing to do with her... oh my god I'm a bad mom, my kids hate me, they would be better off with someone else... etc. She worked over at my house one day just because me and my wife are always home and she didn't want to be alone, like emails from her boss that were even slightly criticizing would send her into a 2 hour tailspin trying to decide if she's going to be fired. She seems like she's just constantly anxious about everything, even shit that nobody can do anything about (like what if my flight is cancelled? That would be just my luck! We should go home by midnight because the drunks are out later, with my luck we will all be killed... )

So.. what the fuck does a friend do in this situation? Telling her it's all in her head doesn't seem to help. Telling her she's actually a fantastic person doesn't help. She has a lot of friends and people who care about her, but she thinks she's dead-weight on all of them and is generally spiraling out of control. Financially she is well off, she's good looking, reasonably young, and is educated and has a good job. There's nothing objectively wrong with her or her life, other than this attitude.

What can be done from the outside to help? Do you just encourage and give opportunities and then pull back and put it on her? I have tried dragging her by the neck to events to have fun and she seems to generally have fun, but then will be "exhausted" for days after and be right back to the same thing.

What do?

Depression sucks, it is crippling and it can take years to pull out of it. Imagine filling a pool one thimble at a time, that is what pulling out of depression can feel like. You wish the Fire Department would swing by and hook you up with a straight feed from the hydrant, but that ain't happening. The way I got out from under depression was to see a therapist and get to the root cause of my issues. I am sure there are cases where meds are really needed, for me they were just a band aid. If you have to learn coping mechanism some are much healthier than others.

One of my coping mechanisms of staying busy is a double edged sword, if my mind is not idle I do not have time to wallow in my own misery. The issue with that that mechanism is that I have a tendency to take on too much and then I am stressed. When I am stressed I eat and and when I get fatter I get depressed. So my big goal for this year is to stay busy with fun hobbies and exercise. Miniature painting is one hobby that I already love and a new one I will be starting in a few months is mechanical keyboard building. These hobbies are fun but also require a high level of concentration thus clearing my mind, I have found on nights that I can squeeze some paint in I sleep much better. When my mind is tired I just don't give fuck about my depression. I would like to get into Wood Working or some Metal Fabrication but again I am trying to not go overboard. The two hobbies I noted above are small scale and do not require a ton of equipment/overhead.

The same is true for being physically tired, when I exercise and sauna regularly I feel better. I have more energy overall, but when it comes time for rest my body and mind are ready.

As always I recommend the Four Agreements to anyone and everyone. Yes, there is a bit of a hippy dippy aspect to the whole book, but the four agreements themselves are legit. Pick up a copy for your friend it is a very very short read 2-3 hours. Also, if your friend has had any serious trauma in her life I recommend The Body Keeps The Score.

Oblio · Feb 17, 2022

Moglyzoke Moogleman sorry to be a broken record, but have you read The Four Agreements? Not saying it will cure you overnight, but it will help you if you try to apply the agreements in your own life.

Moglyzoke Moogleman · Feb 17, 2022

Cad said:
How do you deal with the objective reality not matching your feelings?

One example I can give is when I do the dishes. My mind will inevitably start to wander to a negative place. Some random event that I feel shameful about, or something stupid that I said 6 years ago will pop into my thoughts. When this happens I have my mantra where I literally just say "stop." I somehow trained my brain so now, when I'm doing the dishes and my thoughts start fucking with me I go - no, STOP. Done. For some weird reason I was able to conquer this area of anxiety but can't apply it to other areas.

Cad said:
Like she gets an email and sits and worries she's going to be fired, that everybody hates her, etc.. but I look at her phone and she has 175 unread messages from 20+ people. She's been at her job for like 7 years and she's good at it, never been fired, and has been promoted several times.

But she's worried she's going to be fired.. thats completely irrational.

So I do have the same issue with work. I tend to fear getting fired, yet I have tremendous work ethic. My bosses have always had great things to say about me. My main issue at work is generally working too hard - not realizing it only made me a target for more work. The old "the reward for hard work is more work" type deal. Yet again, strangely enough as a hard worker I can't find the will to get back to school. Well I'm getting there but that's another story.

Cad said:
She thinks she's dead weight to people and nobody likes her.. but people ask her out and try to get her to do things all day long. Like the world just isn't the way she sees it.

Do you have this issue too? How does your mind process the reality into something bad? Is there anything a person could say that would cause you not to see it that way?

8 years ago I met a 40 something year old on Tindr (I'm going somewhere with this story, bear with me.) We talked for hours and I remember at one point my depression / anxiety came up (or my general outlook.) At one point she said "Someone did this to you." And I think she was right. I don't think I was abused, but I do think over the years the bullying, meanness, etc, took its' toll on me. As an example I went to private school my Sophomore year and got bullied for having an online girlfriend in WoW (How the times have changed!) To wrap it up I'm not saying your friend was hurt or bullied in the past, but for me, this is my likely culprit. It created a net negative view about myself that flourished into something absurd, untrue and wild yet exists in my mind.

As I stated initially I am sensitive (and I'm willing to guess your friend might be, too) and that is a contributing factor. Life is tough enough as it is in this current time with all the complexities. It is even more frustrating being very sensitive and thus caring about random bullshit that is meaningless - all the while overlooking things that truly matter. The stuff in 5, 10, and 20 years.

Cad said:
And no problem dude - I would bet good money that the people in your life are trying hard to understand you too, and want to help you. The knowledge that they are doing this should reassure you that the world isn't as you think it appears?

Thanks man. This is where my situation gets tricky though. I've basically become my own worst enemy and cut my nose off to spite my face. Like my conflict with my friends. I lost my money on stupid ass trades. Even if my friends gave me shitty financial advice - being a bitch about it won't help. It is a net negative. Yet I can't seem to behave better. Same deal with my lady. She is an absolute wonder and probably should've left me by now given all the fucked up shit I say. Yet she maintains I have a good heart and stands by me for that. So as you say, the world isn't as I think it appears.

Moglyzoke Moogleman · Feb 17, 2022

Oblio said:
Moglyzoke Moogleman sorry to be a broken record, but have you read The Four Agreements? Not saying it will cure you overnight, but it will help you if you try to apply the agreements in your own life.

I haven't but I should. FWIW I do have those 4 agreements written on a sticky note at work so it sounds like I have some weekend reading coming up. Thanks man. Best regards for you.

Koushirou · Feb 17, 2022

Cad said:
I have a friend who is depressed, and I really have no idea how to help her. It seems like everything in life sends her on a spiral of self doubt and self hatred. Like something happens with her kid that has absolutely nothing to do with her... oh my god I'm a bad mom, my kids hate me, they would be better off with someone else... etc. She worked over at my house one day just because me and my wife are always home and she didn't want to be alone, like emails from her boss that were even slightly criticizing would send her into a 2 hour tailspin trying to decide if she's going to be fired. She seems like she's just constantly anxious about everything, even shit that nobody can do anything about (like what if my flight is cancelled? That would be just my luck! We should go home by midnight because the drunks are out later, with my luck we will all be killed... )

This is basically me for most of my life. I'm a perfectionist, so the slightest mistake would trigger this spiral. I made a mistake -> I'm bad at <thing> -> I will never be good at <thing> -> there's no point in trying <thing> anymore because I'll fail -> there's no point in trying anything anymore because I will fail at everything. I have an incredibly loving family, it's what's kept me around. But I absolutely believed they'd be better off without me. No more stress from dealing with my dumb ass, no more having to waste money on me, no more of me always ruining family get togethers because I'm such a downer. None of it is based in reality, none of it is logical, but I can tell you there's no words that will convince otherwise. It's why it's such a fucking bitch to try to deal with, for all parties involved. And the depressed person knows this, and it only fuels trying to remove themselves even more because of the burden they're putting on their friends and family. The more everyone tried to help, the guiltier it made me feel because nothing worked.

I can't really point to any one specific thing that got me out of it. To be honest, I don't think I ever fully got rid of it all. There's definitely times where I get into one of those little spirals again, but for some reason these days it's just easier to break out of. I can't explain why. First step I took was seeing a therapist at college + a psychiatrist, got diagnosed and got put on some meds. I started going to a social anxiety workgroup at school. I started making small goals to achieve every week. The meds didn't solve things, but they did seem to help getting past that first initial mental block when trying anything new. From one of those goals, I met my now husband, which completely turned my shit around. Now, if something happened to him, I definitely can't say for sure if I'd be right back down to where I was before or if life the past 7 years or so has fortified me a little more.

One thing I know I still absolutely have is the completely apocalyptic world view. Any situation, doesn't matter how small, my mind will beeline to a worst case scenario. Cat has a weird bump on her lip out of nowhere -> wtf is it -> when the hell can I get her to the vet -> can I afford the vet -> if it's something crazy will my pet insurance cover it -> is it already too late and my cat is fucked -> queue my mind playing the scenario of me saying goodbye to her as they put her down and me being a complete failure as her guardian and letting her die. Just randomly during the day, my mind will just decide to play scenes of me after my husband has suddenly died, and I have to sort through his things and decide what to throw away and then imagine the days after as I sit alone in our new house that I can't afford by myself. Because of shit like this, my stress levels are constantly through the roof, so one thing going wrong can completely break me for the day. I don't really know what to do about this aspect still, though I imagine I should probably see a therapist again for that. The anger is another thing I'd also like to address at some point. Always either 0 or 100, like was said above. I've really considered going to one of the places here that let's you buy an hour or so to just smash the shit out of stuff.

re: the bullying stuff, yeah, it's what started my bullshit also. I was a super outgoing kid, fairly popular at school, and really just never had any sort of negative experiences in general through elementary school. When I was 9, went to a summer camp and instantly I got set upon by some older girls. They stalked me everywhere, called me a stupid bitch and a cunt, told me I sucked my dad's cock. Eventually they tried to drown me. I had told the chaperones and they gave the girls a nice 15 minute time out. After that, a bunch of other kids got mad at me for getting them in trouble and I was no longer allowed near those girls because of what I had done to them. Pretty much screwed me up after all that shit, I hadn't told my parents because apparently I'd done something wrong even though I didn't know what. And from then on, it's like everyone knew and I was bullied everywhere up even into college, whether it was getting teased and picked on by the other girls or getting shoved around by the guys. I can at least say I preferred the physical abuse over the verbal because at least I could fight back.

tldr: fucking thing sucks. There's really nothing to say to help, you really can't drag someone out of it, and even positive things can fuck someone up because they don't think they deserve it. Keep talking to people. If one person doesn't work, find someone else. Try to get a hobby that's impossible to fuck up, otherwise it might just be another source of stress. Really wish I had better advice, but depression is a giant bitch.

Cad · Feb 17, 2022

Koushirou said:
This is basically me for most of my life. I'm a perfectionist, so the slightest mistake would trigger this spiral. I made a mistake -> I'm bad at <thing> -> I will never be good at <thing> -> there's no point in trying <thing> anymore because I'll fail -> there's no point in trying anything anymore because I will fail at everything. I have an incredibly loving family, it's what's kept me around. But I absolutely believed they'd be better off without me. No more stress from dealing with my dumb ass, no more having to waste money on me, no more of me always ruining family get togethers because I'm such a downer. None of it is based in reality, none of it is logical, but I can tell you there's no words that will convince otherwise. It's why it's such a fucking bitch to try to deal with, for all parties involved. And the depressed person knows this, and it only fuels trying to remove themselves even more because of the burden they're putting on their friends and family. The more everyone tried to help, the guiltier it made me feel because nothing worked.

I can't really point to any one specific thing that got me out of it. To be honest, I don't think I ever fully got rid of it all. There's definitely times where I get into one of those little spirals again, but for some reason these days it's just easier to break out of. I can't explain why. First step I took was seeing a therapist at college + a psychiatrist, got diagnosed and got put on some meds. I started going to a social anxiety workgroup at school. I started making small goals to achieve every week. The meds didn't solve things, but they did seem to help getting past that first initial mental block when trying anything new. From one of those goals, I met my now husband, which completely turned my shit around. Now, if something happened to him, I definitely can't say for sure if I'd be right back down to where I was before or if life the past 7 years or so has fortified me a little more.

One thing I know I still absolutely have is the completely apocalyptic world view. Any situation, doesn't matter how small, my mind will beeline to a worst case scenario. Cat has a weird bump on her lip out of nowhere -> wtf is it -> when the hell can I get her to the vet -> can I afford the vet -> if it's something crazy will my pet insurance cover it -> is it already too late and my cat is fucked -> queue my mind playing the scenario of me saying goodbye to her as they put her down and me being a complete failure as her guardian and letting her die. Just randomly during the day, my mind will just decide to play scenes of me after my husband has suddenly died, and I have to sort through his things and decide what to throw away and then imagine the days after as I sit alone in our new house that I can't afford by myself. Because of shit like this, my stress levels are constantly through the roof, so one thing going wrong can completely break me for the day. I don't really know what to do about this aspect still, though I imagine I should probably see a therapist again for that. The anger is another thing I'd also like to address at some point. Always either 0 or 100, like was said above. I've really considered going to one of the places here that let's you buy an hour or so to just smash the shit out of stuff.

re: the bullying stuff, yeah, it's what started my bullshit also. I was a super outgoing kid, fairly popular at school, and really just never had any sort of negative experiences in general through elementary school. When I was 9, went to a summer camp and instantly I got set upon by some older girls. They stalked me everywhere, called me a stupid bitch and a cunt, told me I sucked my dad's cock. Eventually they tried to drown me. I had told the chaperones and they gave the girls a nice 15 minute time out. After that, a bunch of other kids got mad at me for getting them in trouble and I was no longer allowed near those girls because of what I had done to them. Pretty much screwed me up after all that shit, I hadn't told my parents because apparently I'd done something wrong even though I didn't know what. And from then on, it's like everyone knew and I was bullied everywhere up even into college, whether it was getting teased and picked on by the other girls or getting shoved around by the guys. I can at least say I preferred the physical abuse over the verbal because at least I could fight back.

tldr: fucking thing sucks. There's really nothing to say to help, you really can't drag someone out of it, and even positive things can fuck someone up because they don't think they deserve it. Keep talking to people. If one person doesn't work, find someone else. Try to get a hobby that's impossible to fuck up, otherwise it might just be another source of stress. Really wish I had better advice, but depression is a giant bitch.

Moglyzoke Moogleman said:
One example I can give is when I do the dishes. My mind will inevitably start to wander to a negative place. Some random event that I feel shameful about, or something stupid that I said 6 years ago will pop into my thoughts. When this happens I have my mantra where I literally just say "stop." I somehow trained my brain so now, when I'm doing the dishes and my thoughts start fucking with me I go - no, STOP. Done. For some weird reason I was able to conquer this area of anxiety but can't apply it to other areas.

So I do have the same issue with work. I tend to fear getting fired, yet I have tremendous work ethic. My bosses have always had great things to say about me. My main issue at work is generally working too hard - not realizing it only made me a target for more work. The old "the reward for hard work is more work" type deal. Yet again, strangely enough as a hard worker I can't find the will to get back to school. Well I'm getting there but that's another story.

8 years ago I met a 40 something year old on Tindr (I'm going somewhere with this story, bear with me.) We talked for hours and I remember at one point my depression / anxiety came up (or my general outlook.) At one point she said "Someone did this to you." And I think she was right. I don't think I was abused, but I do think over the years the bullying, meanness, etc, took its' toll on me. As an example I went to private school my Sophomore year and got bullied for having an online girlfriend in WoW (How the times have changed!) To wrap it up I'm not saying your friend was hurt or bullied in the past, but for me, this is my likely culprit. It created a net negative view about myself that flourished into something absurd, untrue and wild yet exists in my mind.

As I stated initially I am sensitive (and I'm willing to guess your friend might be, too) and that is a contributing factor. Life is tough enough as it is in this current time with all the complexities. It is even more frustrating being very sensitive and thus caring about random bullshit that is meaningless - all the while overlooking things that truly matter. The stuff in 5, 10, and 20 years.

Thanks man. This is where my situation gets tricky though. I've basically become my own worst enemy and cut my nose off to spite my face. Like my conflict with my friends. I lost my money on stupid ass trades. Even if my friends gave me shitty financial advice - being a bitch about it won't help. It is a net negative. Yet I can't seem to behave better. Same deal with my lady. She is an absolute wonder and probably should've left me by now given all the fucked up shit I say. Yet she maintains I have a good heart and stands by me for that. So as you say, the world isn't as I think it appears.

To both of you, is there anything you wish your friends had done that they weren't doing? Is there anything that you could say, gosh if someone had just done X Y or Z... etc.. ? I really just want to help her but it's hard to beat that kind of negativity since if you're looking for the negative angle on something, you WILL find it.

Koushirou · Feb 17, 2022

It’s hard to say. Basically any action or words, I could come up with a way to turn that shit around and dunk on myself with it. Best thing I can think of is try to just…act normal around her the best you can if that makes sense? And anytime she makes some negative comment about herself or similar, just do not engage the comment in any way. Trying to disprove it, etc. isn’t going to work and generally will only make it worse. Deflect, distract, completely change the subject, etc. Do not give those comments the time of day. Hope this helps.

Cad · Feb 17, 2022

Koushirou said:
It’s hard to say. Basically any action or words, I could come up with a way to turn that shit around and dunk on myself with it. Best thing I can think of is try to just…act normal around her the best you can if that makes sense? And anytime she makes some negative comment about herself or similar, just do not engage the comment in any way. Trying to disprove it, etc. isn’t going to work and generally will only make it worse. Deflect, distract, completely change the subject, etc. Do not give those comments the time of day. Hope this helps.

Couldn't that just be turned into "he doesn't listen to what I say, nobody cares about my struggle... " etc? What I have been trying to do is be like, I know you think that, but thats not true, and certainly not how I feel, but it does just get turned around just like you're saying. I really think anything can be turned around if you are trying, you will see what you want to see.

The question is... how do you get her to not want to see that? Obviously thats the million dollar question... and it might not be anything anybody can do, that person has to defeat it themselves.

Koushirou · Feb 17, 2022

Cad said:
Couldn't that just be turned into "he doesn't listen to what I say, nobody cares about my struggle... " etc?

The question is... how do you get her to not want to see that? Obviously thats the million dollar question... and it might not be anything anybody can do, that person has to defeat it themselves.

It certainly can and does get turned around into a “nobody cares” situation but hopefully a quick distraction to another topic can potentially break that one chain of thought. It probably won’t always work, but I know that 99% of the time, trying to disprove it will only go in a bad direction.

I can’t speak for anyone else, but at least for my situation nothing changed until I took the first step in trying to change it. The support from outside absolutely helps, but until they actively want things to be better there really isn’t that much you can do except just be there. As for the catalyst that got me to make my first appointment? I wish I knew. Just got tired of the bullshit I guess.

Moglyzoke Moogleman · Feb 17, 2022

Cad said:
To both of you, is there anything you wish your friends had done that they weren't doing? Is there anything that you could say, gosh if someone had just done X Y or Z... etc.. ? I really just want to help her but it's hard to beat that kind of negativity since if you're looking for the negative angle on something, you WILL find it.

So this will sound corny. Because it is. But for me personally, some kind of surprise get together is something I'd wish for. You could do something at one of your places, a local bar, restaurant, whatever or wherever. This advice could be unique to my situation because I'm withdrawn. Maybe it's also my own recall to the days of hanging out all the time, whereas now I'll see friends maybe once a year. But whatever you choose changes things up in a creative way and is kind of a celebration of your friendship (which to someone not feeling great about themselves would be a nice feeling.)

Another way of putting it could be going above and beyond in your friendship. What and how that would be employed I'd say is based on the dynamics of your friendship with her. I hope this helps.

Moglyzoke Moogleman · Feb 17, 2022

Koushirou said:
Any situation, doesn't matter how small, my mind will beeline to a worst case scenario. Cat has a weird bump on her lip out of nowhere -> wtf is it -> when the hell can I get her to the vet -> can I afford the vet -> if it's something crazy will my pet insurance cover it -> is it already too late and my cat is fucked -> queue my mind playing the scenario of me saying goodbye to her as they put her down and me being a complete failure as her guardian and letting her die.

This is one area I can tell you you're definitely a very good person and have a heart. I know this because in my relationship my lady is a Vet Tech so when it comes to taking care of the animals I literally wouldn't act - "let's wait it out and see" type stupid / lazy shit. And there's been plenty of issues, hell the cat just had god damn worms. Fuck worms. Any who I wanted to give you props here.

Koushirou said:
Just randomly during the day, my mind will just decide to play scenes of me after my husband has suddenly died, and I have to sort through his things and decide what to throw away and then imagine the days after as I sit alone in our new house that I can't afford by myself. Because of shit like this, my stress levels are constantly through the roof, so one thing going wrong can completely break me for the day. I don't really know what to do about this aspect still, though I imagine I should probably see a therapist again for that. The anger is another thing I'd also like to address at some point. Always either 0 or 100, like was said above. I've really considered going to one of the places here that let's you buy an hour or so to just smash the shit out of stuff.

Yeah it really sucks that anxiety / depression seem to go hand in hand (and somehow anger is involved, too.) It's incredibly frustrating. I know about meditation, I know about counting down, but in the moment when I get pissed off it's difficult to do anything but become further angry. It's very odd for me because I don't feel like I always was like this. That brings me to the next part.

Koushirou said:
re: the bullying stuff, yeah, it's what started my bullshit also. I was a super outgoing kid, fairly popular at school, and really just never had any sort of negative experiences in general through elementary school. When I was 9, went to a summer camp and instantly I got set upon by some older girls. They stalked me everywhere, called me a stupid bitch and a cunt, told me I sucked my dad's cock. Eventually they tried to drown me. I had told the chaperones and they gave the girls a nice 15 minute time out. After that, a bunch of other kids got mad at me for getting them in trouble and I was no longer allowed near those girls because of what I had done to them. Pretty much screwed me up after all that shit, I hadn't told my parents because apparently I'd done something wrong even though I didn't know what. And from then on, it's like everyone knew and I was bullied everywhere up even into college, whether it was getting teased and picked on by the other girls or getting shoved around by the guys. I can at least say I preferred the physical abuse over the verbal because at least I could fight back.

I was bullied and I also bullied eventually. Not quite as often but for me to claim victim 100% of the time wouldn't be accurate but definitely with the physical stuff. The tried to drown experience sounds very traumatizing and I'm sorry you went through that experience. People suck and when they confirm just how bad they can be through actions like that it's incredibly shitty (fueling further issues.) I can't go into detail but I got sucker punched once with a pretty good black eye. Another time an ogre of a human tried to beat my ass, punching me repeatedly in the head. He ended up going down for attempted murder! (Not for that, for an unrelated event like 5+ years after.)

Koushirou said:
tldr: fucking thing sucks. There's really nothing to say to help, you really can't drag someone out of it, and even positive things can fuck someone up because they don't think they deserve it. Keep talking to people. If one person doesn't work, find someone else. Try to get a hobby that's impossible to fuck up, otherwise it might just be another source of stress. Really wish I had better advice, but depression is a giant bitch.

Amen. I might look for another therapist. I like my guy, I really do, we get along but for some issues I may need somebody else. I'd seen two previously in my life, one good and one bad, so change can be help. I'm planning on gardening, working on the house, chickens, etc so Spring / Summer ought to be much better. Those hold less stakes than losing money.

Best of luck to you in staying strong and thanks for your responses.

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