Diablo 4 / IV / IIII / Fore / Cope / Seethe

Cinge

Cinge

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
7,012
2,078
Zindan said:
I believe in some interview Blizz said that players would NOT need to refarm the Altars of Lilith, but didn't mention not needing to refarm Renown, so ppl are just assuming that we'll need to get Renown for Skill Points / Paragon.
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God I hope not. I can see the top portion of renown(as it is currenlty with alts) for the gold/exp, but the bottem being account wide shouldn't ever have to be done again if done once. Otherwise what was the dumb point of making account wide bonuses. Even the codex should be unlocked in season if you did it once already.

I guess we will see. No one really seems to know and just speculation atm.
 
D

Drew

Molten Core Raider
44
17
Zindan said:
Yea, I got the other Twitch Drops and all the pre order stuff. It is just the gifted sub mount that isn't present, and I recall getting a pop in Twitch saying I earned the Mount (haven't seen a way to "claim" it on Twitch and it doesn't show up in the Drops Inventory.
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Mount comes with a redeem code you have to redeem it from your b.net account.
 
Kiroy

Kiroy

Marine Biologist
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zombiewizardhawk said:
I'm the opposite. I had a ton of fun at first in fractured peaks just doing all the quests/finding everything, then I decided I wanted my mount and hated every minute of going through the rest of the story from halfway through scosglen to the end, but now that i'm in WT3 just running around killing stuff i'm having a blast. I'm sure part of it is that I can actually kill stuff at a reasonable pace now.

I think it's a mindset thing. If it's getting boring just grinding back to back to back aspect dungeons then take a break and do some helltides/whispers/whatever for a bit.


Oh boy, here we go again. "PoE skill tree is so diverse, so many options, so much versatility. It's definitely not preset copy pasted builds that everyone uses!" but then when you actually compare builds 99.9% of skill trees are identical copies.
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thing with poe is if you’re a rich poopsockers, there is huge build diversity. For the weekend warriors who just plan on a few weeks with one char, no, its similar
 
Borzak

Borzak

Bronze Baron of the Realm
24,609
31,926
I guess it's my controls or something. I'm having a very hard time interacting with anything other than picking up loot. It has an icon and says interact and click on the object/person and I just stand there. Stuck.
 
Deathwing

Deathwing

<Bronze Donator>
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Kiroy said:
thing with poe is if you’re a rich poopsockers, there is huge build diversity. For the weekend warriors who just plan on a few weeks with one char, no, its similar
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Not even that. If your goal is do everything but the absolute endgame(ubers, simulacrum 30, deep delving, ravaged blights), a whole ton of builds are available to even casual players. Note, available and actually utilized are not the same thing. Also note that none of the stuff in the parentheses was required for 38/40 this league.


I'd be interested in how zombiewizardhawk got the data necessary to compare 99.9% of passive trees.
 
mkopec

mkopec

<Gold Donor>
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Deathwing said:
Not even that. If your goal is do everything but the absolute endgame(ubers, simulacrum 30, deep delving, ravaged blights), a whole ton of builds are available to even casual players. Note, available and actually utilized are not the same thing. Also note that none of the stuff in the parentheses was required for 38/40 this league.


I'd be interested in how zombiewizardhawk got the data necessary to compare 99.9% of passive trees.
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Problem here is youre speaking from a perspective of a die hard POE player that prob has like thousands of hours in the game already, when was the last time you skipped a league? Anyway, for the average player which plays a league or two here and there over the years, the game is fucking DAUNTING. So you go and choose a build from the forums or the local youtube video. Shit I even still do this to this day since im a league a year dude. So yeah, the build possibilities for a average player which is not accustomed to the ins and outs of this DAUNTING game, are prob limited.
 
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Deathwing

Deathwing

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mkopec said:
Problem here is youre speaking from a perspective of a die hard POE player that prob has like thousands of hours in the game already, when was the last time you skipped a league? Anyway, for the average player which plays a league or two here and there over the years, the game is fucking DAUNTING. So you go and choose a build from the forums or the local youtube video. Shit I even still do this to this day since im a league a year dude. So yeah, the build possibilities for a average player which is not accustomed to the ins and outs of this DAUNTING game, are prob limited.
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This is what I was hinting at with the "available and actually utilized" comment. "actually utilized" is a function of the game and the community. "available" is a function of just the game.

I think it's a fair distinction to make because people will criticize just the game for what is partially the result of the community as well. I'm also not absolving the developers of the daunting aspect of understanding the game.

Let's use Detonate Dead as an example. Absolutely no one plays that skill from a meta perspective. However, there's a wealth of information available as it was only nerfed from a numbers standpoint. The mechanics mostly hold true from outdated build guides. Does DD count towards build diversity?
 
Kiroy

Kiroy

Marine Biologist
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Deathwing said:
This is what I was hinting at with the "available and actually utilized" comment. "actually utilized" is a function of the game and the community. "available" is a function of just the game.

I think it's a fair distinction to make because people will criticize just the game for what is partially the result of the community as well. I'm also not absolving the developers of the daunting aspect of understanding the game.

Let's use Detonate Dead as an example. Absolutely no one plays that build from a meta perspective. However, there's a wealth of information available as it was only nerfed from a numbers standpoint. The mechanics mostly hold true from outdated build guides. Does DD count towards build diversity?
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poe ninja can answer
 
Deathwing

Deathwing

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Kiroy said:
poe ninja can answer
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I'm not interested in poe.ninja in this context. That will tell me only the top 50k + whomever bothered to link their account. That is not a useful metric for understanding the build diversity available in a game.
 
Caliane

Caliane

Avatar of War Slayer
14,554
10,040
Chimney said:
Literally every single game that has a talent tree or skill point system boils down to the barest selection of builds for anyone who cares about min/maxing. It won't matter if you have 100000 choices or 10.

You have 21 sub classes to choose from in POE and they only use the same 2-3 builds for end game mapping/bosses season after season after season for years on end. 99% of players copy them if they are interested in end game. The rest fuck around and can't beat campaign or low level maps. Repeat each season.

They do excel at pumping out new content but let's not pretend they are innovative outside of that when it's a hard requirement to use 3rd party tools to get anything out of the game for non casuals.

---

For paragon boards you have access to 8 of them after the starter board which you can choose as you see fit which again won't matter to min/maxers because they will pick what is optimal. I'm almost L70 in World Tier 4 (end game) w/ around ~110 paragon and I never have to tab out to check how to build my character to keep progressing which is a huge win so far imo.
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subclasses in poe do have the same problem, and were a mistake. They do reduce build options.
 
Lenas

Lenas

Trump's Staff
7,483
2,229
Deathwing said:
I think it's a fair distinction to make because people will criticize just the game for what is partially the result of the community as well.
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It's a fair distinction to make for conversation sake but it's not a distinction that matters. If 100 builds are viable but 99 of them are unused for whatever reason, the game/system ain't great.
 
Caliane

Caliane

Avatar of War Slayer
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Lenas said:
It's a fair distinction to make for conversation sake but it's not a distinction that matters. If 100 builds are viable but 99 of them are unused for whatever reason, the game/system ain't great.
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eh.. every game is going to have this issue with everyone leaning on the same top 2-3 builds. A strategies. It's basically impossible to eliminate it. you can help by having radically different playstyles involved. so each playstyle might have 2-3. the constant league resets is one way these games address it too. constantly tweaking/rebalancing to make it so the top builds/skills are constantly changing.

that vid with asmongold, and that other guy touches on this issue from another direction however. back in the days of d2, there were a couple broken builds, but overall most builds could do the job very well. PoE certainly now, has a problem with the top content being balanced around no lifers and those top builds. That is a huge mistake.
 
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Deathwing

Deathwing

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Caliane said:
eh.. every game is going to have this issue with everyone leaning on the same top 2-3 builds. A strategies. It's basically impossible to eliminate it. you can help by having radically different playstyles involved. so each playstyle might have 2-3. the constant league resets is one way these games address it too. constantly tweaking/rebalancing to make it so the top builds/skills are constantly changing.

that vid with asmongold, and that other guy touches on this issue from another direction however. back in the days of d2, there were a couple broken builds, but overall most builds could do the job very well. PoE certainly now, has a problem with the top content being balanced around no lifers and those top builds. That is a huge mistake.
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So, again, this is a distinction of game vs game + community. The devs said the new aspirational content(all the stuff in parentheses in one of my previous comments) is balanced much more strictly. No lifers as you put it. The implication being that players should not use that content to determine build viability.

Now, of course they've fucked up in other ways wrt that content. Ubers and non-ubers share the same keys, devaluing non-uber encounters in trade leagues. Certain drops only drop from aspirational content.

Is it the game's fault that there is content that the devs have implied should not be a measuring stick for build viability? Or is it the community's fault for ignoring that and doing it anyway?
 
Dr.Retarded

Dr.Retarded

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zombiewizardhawk said:
Since I saw someone mention the multiple goblins thing from D3. This cellar had 3 so you can find groups of them, maybe not out in the open world tho.
View attachment 477145
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Yeah, I had one cellar so far with three. Managed to down 2, and almost had the third before the little fucker escaped.

On another note, had I think my 4th Butcher invade a dungeon, and finally dropped his ass. Was hectic because it was a cave and there wasn't a lot of room to run around, but managed to kill him despite being down to no pots.

Feels good, but was still a challenge. Lot of fun, though.
 
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